The Truth on How Much Protein You Really Need Per Day to Build Muscle

[NU_nutrition_TS]

I wouldn't argue with that at all. I'm a big believer in listening to your own body and not slavishly working to a specific formula. That goes for training as well as diet.

[Nicholars]

Yeh I have had much better results when doing that than when I used to follow the stuff out of mags etc. I think it was you that said something about muscle growth actually not being down to food consumption, obviously you need to eat to grow but for example in the last 2 weeks I have been eating less calories than I have been burning but I have also upped my bench press and my chest has grown loads, while losing a lot of fat as well, Not because I have been eating more but because I jumped 2 steps of dumbells on the DB bench press from what I was doing before. Unless your super low fat your body has energy stores there if you FORCE it to use them!

Obviously its different for pro bodybuilders but for most natural people its true.... tbh the stuff in magazines about 8-12 reps and constantly eating on a schedule is bs.

Maybe its different for different people but I dont grow at all this 8-12 reps stuff I start on about 4 reps and when I get to 8 reps with good form I up the weight. Staying on 8-12 reps for weeks/months doesnt do much at all for me.

Sorry bit off topic there.... I would say 1.2g per pound bodyweight is about ideal but theres quite a lot of stuff about protein cycling etc. and I dont think ahving a few days of low consumption followed by a protein binge would do any harm!

[NU_nutrition_TS]

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I think it was you that said something about muscle growth actually not being down to food consumption...

Guilty as charged! Yes, one of the 'bees in my bonnet' is that muscle growth is primarily a physiological adaptation to the 'damage' caused by stressing a muscle to just beyond its current capacity to cope.

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...obviously you need to eat to grow but for example in the last 2 weeks I have been eating less calories than I have been burning but I have also upped my bench press and my chest has grown loads, while losing a lot of fat as well

Increased energy requirement is partly a function of the aforementioned adaptation process - repairing damaged tissue (and building new tissue) requires fuel and raw materials. Your body can take this from existing stores so you don't necessarily need to take them in as extra food over the immediate short term.

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Not because I have been eating more but because I jumped 2 steps of dumbells on the DB bench press from what I was doing before. Unless your super low fat your body has energy stores there if you FORCE it to use them!

You have discovered the mechanism which I have long maintained makes steady state cardio for fat loss redundant if not counter-productive in the face of a well constructed and performed high intensity/resistance regimen.

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Obviously its different for pro bodybuilders but for most natural people its true.... tbh the stuff in magazines about 8-12 reps and constantly eating on a schedule is bs.

As the vast majority are on a ****tail of 'synthetic enhancers' (if I can put it that way!) anything they may advise with regard to diet and training has to be taken with a pinch of salt for most 'natural' folk!

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Maybe its different for different people but I dont grow at all this 8-12 reps stuff I start on about 4 reps and when I get to 8 reps with good form I up the weight. Staying on 8-12 reps for weeks/months doesnt do much at all for me.

I think there is an argument for 'different strokes for different folks' in some respects but I suspect the variability in rep schemes has more to do with the execution than the numbers. You have to take into account the timing of reps and sets as well as the number and weight used. It's all about time under tension and how ( and when) the different types of muscle fibre fire, exhaust and recuperate during a contraction.

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Sorry bit off topic there.... I would say 1.2g per pound bodyweight is about ideal but theres quite a lot of stuff about protein cycling etc. and I dont think ahving a few days of low consumption followed by a protein binge would do any harm!

Exactly - this is the kind of random, unpredictable pattern with which we evolved. It's encouraging to find someone has discovered - in a very real-world, practical sense - what I have theorised about for a while and been able to think it through to come to some logical conclusions as to why and how it has worked!

[elmo322]

In my experience of training individuals, there is no set protein amount for a given individual. There are rough guidelines but everyone is different. You have to listen to your own body.

Often less protein is needed when bulking as to when cutting as carbs are very protein sparing. BCAA's are key in stimulating muscle growth especially Leucine. Also cycling training (periodization) is a key factor, along with strategic deconditioning and protein cycling.

[ATZ]

Protein requirement may well be lower whilst bulking - true.

However BCAA are not essential to muscle growth, enough protein will do that. And protein cycling is a retarded concept IMO.

[elmo322]

BCAA's are essential amino acids how are they not essential? Leucine has been prooven to be a factor in increased protein synthesis. Studies have been done by the University of Illionos to prove this.

Sorry, what I mean by protein cycling is my protein intake for particulr training. I would use a different amount when doing strength compared to hypertrophy etc The cycling refering to periodization.

[ryandj2]

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BCAA's are essential amino acids how are they not essential? Leucine has been prooven to be a factor in increased protein synthesis. Studies have been done by the University of Illionos to prove this.
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I think what ATZ means is that by eating a diet rich in mixed protein, it is not necessary to supplement with BCAA's as you would get sufficient from your diet.

[elmo322]

Agreed that if your getting enough protein from certain sources than this might be enough to get results. I'm just saying a pwo shake combining carbs(simple, complex), whey and leucine has been shown to dramatically increase protein synthesis compared to protein or carbs alone.

This is why IMO they are essential if you want optimal results.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

Most of those studies have looked at short-term protein synthesis and not long-term muscle growth - two very different propositions, though.

[elmo322]

Totally true, that's why I try and not just focus on one particular study. Most pro naturals use BCAA's when bulking and cutting and have had great results, as of I. I try to focus as hard on all training areas and it's important not to just rely on one particular type of training or diet plan.

I have been looking into strategic deconditioning (part of HST training) lately and is something I am trying out, has anyone tried this? I always periodize it so that I always up the weight after the period of lay off so that I am still up on the weight I was lifting.