Against Glycogen Repletion...

[DaVinci]

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because if you looked at il-6 then you'll understand its role? or ask a bodybuilder with hayfever? we are talking inflammatory response- as said half ****ed idea= told half the story and run with itto the goalmouth. unfotunately bodily responses dont always act independently- to put it back to simplistic terms for every action there is a reaction

You've likely realised this by now as i am posting quite late in the thread, but the article isn't citing IL-6 as an anabolic cytokine. It is citing it as a fuel preference selector, which is backed by a lot of research. It appears to be the trigger to switch from glucose-burning mode to fat-burning mode. There are two cytokines that appear to be anabolically-mediated though: IL-12 and IL-15. Research into their effects (especially IL-15) is very skant at present.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

My understanding is that the majority of studies which state that insulin is anabolic [promoting growth] were based on immature animals and pre-adolescent human subjects and that in post-pubertal adults, insulin does not do much to promote growth [other than increase body fat!]. I should add, I am talking mainly about endogenous insulin not exogenous [intravenously administered] insulin!

[DaVinci]

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well i wouldnt be me if i hadnt- i'm still fighting the losing battle.
i had to study the inflammatory response quite extensively, i confess, i didnt know it could positively impact on fat loss.
v interesting-and to make a huge huge huge unsubstantiated leap of faith (not referenced in anyway shape or form) back to the anti-histamine side effects: hunger, could the hunger be due to over expression of tnf and IL-6 reducing glucose uptake and affecting satiation?

Not hugely well versed in histamine's relationships with cytokines, but I think histamine induces IL-6 and not vice versa.

[DaVinci]

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This may help, Jules....


http://www.netriceuticals.com/articles.asp?id=120

There is an obscene number of hormones/neuropeptides involved in appetite regulation.

[DaVinci]

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My understanding is that the majority of studies which state that insulin is anabolic [promoting growth] were based on immature animals and pre-adolescent human subjects and that in post-pubertal adults, insulin does not do much to promote growth [other than increase body fat!]. I should add, I am talking mainly about endogenous insulin not exogenous [intravenously administered] insulin!

Insulin + essential amino acids = anabolic.

[DaVinci]

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In reponse to Martin's point above, and as additional info for KP with regard to limiting carb/protein/amino usage and thus avoid aggravating insulin resisitance, here is another snippet from Art's blog:



Also, insulin is an antagonist for growth hormone. Growth hormone is released during training....then you have a sugary/protein/amino drink immediately after your workout and illicit a huge insulin spike. Result? You wipe out the growth hormone!

Physiological levels of growth hormone are effectively effectiveless unless you are an infant or the early stages of puberty. You really need supraphysiological levels of the stuff to promote the lipolytic and tendon strengthening properties. Alone, it is not very anabolic either, but in conjunction with other anabolics such as insulin it can be highly anabolic.

[jules]

antihistamines inhibit proinflammatory cytokines IL-6, IL-8 from basophils and mast cells without the onset of histamine

[DaVinci]

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antihistamines inhibit proinflammatory cytokines IL-6, IL-8 from basophils and mast cells without the onset of histamine

That makes sense, if histamine induces them. However, as i said, i do't believe they induce histamine in return, therefore their release will not cause a histamine-mediated effect. Otherwise you'd get really itchy during and after training.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

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Insulin + essential amino acids = anabolic.

Not necessarily...it depends on the methods employed [humans/animals, endogenous insulin/exogenous insulin, in vitro or in vivo]...
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[FONT=Verdana]Insulin’s capacity to stimulate protein synthesis has been a confusing problem for some time. Wolfe (2000) summarizes by stating that:[/FONT]
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[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]“In vitro studies document a stimulatory effect of insulin on muscle protein synthesis, but in vivo results are conflicting. Everything from decreased muscle protein synthesis to increased muscle protein synthesis in response to insulin has been reported. A recent publication suggests that the response of muscle protein synthesis to insulin is dose dependent, and that only supraphysiological dose of insulin stimulate muscle protein synthesis. On the other hand, some studies show a stimulatory effect of insulin in low doses.”[/FONT][FONT=Verdana]
[/FONT]

[kp1512]

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Not necessarily...it depends on the methods employed [humans/animals, endogenous insulin/exogenous insulin, in vitro or in vivo]...
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Nu

I assume Dav is refering to exogenous! Insulin + Amino plus carbs amounts to an abaolic environment.

have any of you ever seen or monitored someone who takes Insulin and Growth?......or even Insulin alone for mass building? I am assuming not

Theres a phenominal amount of examples out there who have taken steroids, adn then added Insulin and then growth and have added some serious mass post implementation.

KP