5x5 - Progress Update

[etienne]

Afternoon

A while ago I posted a routine I was working through which was pretty much ripped, and then destroyed, from the Blood and Guts workout courtesy of Mr Yates.

Now given the time constraints I had, and generally being a muppet, I mixed the routine up a little and was probably overworking every session.

I heeded the masses and started on 5x5s. I also adjusted my diet, not to extreme macro management admittedly, but can honestly say that I'm pleased with the results. However, I have got a few questions which hopefully you guys can help out on.

Monday:
Bench Press @ 70kg
Overhead Press @ 40kg
Bent Rows @ 45kg

Thursday:
Squats @ 110kg
Overhead Press @ 40kg
Bent Rows @ 45kg

Saturday:
Deadlift @ 70kg
Bench Press @ 70kg
Overhead Press @ 45kg

Every day has 25 minute of intervals on the runner at 2% incline to start. Resting pace is 6k with my intervals starting at 9.5k and peaking at 15 before cooldown.

Diet is pretty static. Wife wakes me up with some porridge around 7am (gawd bless her), and im in work by 9 usually cruise past the fruit and grab an apple. 11am is a probiotic, omega 3 and a Whey Isolate shake. Lunch around 12:30, usually brown rice with tuna, prawns or turkey breast. Occasionally swap out the rice for wholegrain pasta, with some olive oil and cherry toms.

On gym nights, dinner is an omelette with peppers/spinach/red onion with a protein shake around 9:30. Rest nights I don't take the second shake.

Questions as follows:

- Bent over rows: Seem quite low compared to other guys in a similar place with their other lifts. Confused.
- Bench press: Has stalled. Just cannot close out 5x5 at 75 and above.
- Body metrics: I'm 5'7 and 12 1/2 stone. Not measured my bodyfat.

I'm a lot thicker in my chest, shoulders and upper arms but I'm not getting a lot of definition. Is there a way I can change up what I'm doing to focus on getting lean and defined?

[Zeigler]

The Rows & Bench are probably down to form, unless your not eating enough for recovery and strength gains.

2 options would be to video the lifts and post them up, or there are some good videos from Dave Tate/EliteFTS on youtube on the big lifts. Unsure if theres one on BOR's though.

If your getting 'thicker' with no 'definition' that could be a sign of putting on a bit more fat but there will also be muscle there, underneath. You'll need to do a cut at some point to get your definition. Lean and defined is a case of eating to get lean and defined.

[etienne]

Quote

The Rows & Bench are probably down to form, unless your not eating enough for recovery and strength gains.

2 options would be to video the lifts and post them up, or there are some good videos from Dave Tate/EliteFTS on youtube on the big lifts. Unsure if theres one on BOR's though.

If your getting 'thicker' with no 'definition' that could be a sign of putting on a bit more fat but there will also be muscle there, underneath. You'll need to do a cut at some point to get your definition. Lean and defined is a case of eating to get lean and defined.

Thicker might not have been the best choice of word. Firmer might. There was sag and fleshy wobble. There isnt any more, especially through upper chest, upper back, shoulders and triceps. I'm just curious if my goals of losing a bit more BF and getting some definition is in line with how im training and eating.

[etienne]

Checked some form on the Rows and i think im a bit too straight up and as a result lifting too far. Will certainly be looking to correct this when I head up tomorrow night. Will start at my weight above and see how it goes. Thanks for the tip

[etienne]

So last night went great, added another 10KG to bent rows last night all down to form it seems! Also put 5KG on the bench, and tried to keep my elbows a little further into my body and correct the downplane of the bar.

Form is king

[andyjones80]

i started the 5x5 routine this week, i started training again in August/September, after a 2.5 year lay-off just went into a 3 day split from the off, chest triceps, back biceps, legs shoulders, was'nt long before my strength increased 108kg x 8 bench press, 160kg x 4 squat, 225kg (only just) dead lift x 1.

had 3 week off over Christmas went away for 2 weeks on holiday, anyway i came back and started again had a week doing 3 day split then read about the stronglifts.com programme in a beginner section of a forum, so this week i started it Tuesday "by the book" with just the bar it felt weird but ill stick with it, next day Thursday sound, Saturday whilst doing my 5th set of squats something went big time in my knee i heard it and felt it pain this was only with 55lb including bar.

Today i have woken up knee swelled up hurts even walking upstairs no more squats this week now so back to the 3 day split for me, because when that working weight goes up to say 100kg for squats for 5 reps 5 sets 3 x a week is just too much for your joints in my opinion.

I honestly think that the lack of weight feels funny and it made me not stick to the correct form and this has caused the injury im gutted should have just stuck to 3 day split i was strong enough anyhow and that would have increased over time (ok maybe not as quick as with stronglifts but i would have stayed injury free).

Also cleaned up my diet as of Monday nothing processed plenty of veg chicken sweet potato tuna eggs and have lost 3.7kg in 6 days 134.4 - 130.7kg so im well chuffed.

[wilfred]

Eat more man!

Post workout shake? While i don't advocate 7 meals a day, 4 what appear to be small meals a day is not gonna sustain you for these weights and interval training! Protein with every meal, most importantly with breakfast your body hasn't had any aminos since last night, porridge and a bit of fruit is not good enough.

try n get 5-6 meals including shakes, and base them all around your protein source. If you continue to do this you will have a good basis to gain some decent strength and muscle.

On a different note....

Also are you squatting with good form? Sorry to question this but compared to all your other lifts your weights seem inflated for the squat, if you can only deadlift 70, you shouldn't be able to squat 110.

To be honest it should be the other way around, your squat should be about 75% of what you deadlift. While it is not set in stone it should be around there. Google ATG squat, it means "a** to grass" you go as low as physically possible in the squat, the back of your hamstrings should be in contact with your calves. If you are going to parallel it is a half rep and the weight is too heavy.

[fletch167]

I have just started again on the 5x5 workout and have encountered the same questions as you in terms of goal. Initially I wanted to keep/improve my strength for rugby whilst becoming more defined. I quickly found that to get the full benefit out of the 5x5 workout my daily calorie intake had to increase and by doing this cutting would be a lot harder.....My strength has gone up considerably in the last 3 weeks and am happy that my body is firmer and slightly wider from the waist up. I am planning to keep this up until easter time when the rugby season starts to slow down then i am going to do a cut....where i will lower my overall calorie intake by upping protein and lowering carbs.....

I think its easy to have 2 goals in your mind but it will be a lot more satisfying to have one goal and see that through then have a new goal after....

Keep up the progress reports though it is really interesting to read

[wilfred]

Quote

Thicker might not have been the best choice of word. Firmer might. There was sag and fleshy wobble. There isnt any more, especially through upper chest, upper back, shoulders and triceps. I'm just curious if my goals of losing a bit more BF and getting some definition is in line with how im training and eating.

I would say no, the type of training you are doing requires significant calories to avoid burning out, unless you are gonna take a week off training every 3-4weeks.

You need to prioritise, because you seem concerned with strength and losing bf on what appears to be a low cal/low fat diet. Building size, strength or losing weight are 3 different things and are not particularly easy to do all at the same time.

If losing body fat is your priority you need to lower your reliance on carbs and up your protein and fat. Say 40% protein, 35% fat and 25% carbs, doesn't have to be exact.

If you want to gain strength, you need to up everything!

Same with size!

If you are relatively new to regular intense weight training and still young (say less than 23), you can gain muscle and strength whilst losing fat. However doing all the same time as you get older is harder. I would say you should concentrate on strength for the moment, your body shape wills till improve and once you have good strength base, go on a diet and get rid of bf.

[rattyryan]

You shouldnt be using the 5x5 routine if your looking to lose weight. The idea is to add mass and eat loads when doing this n i definitely think you need to be eating more. Also if anything being more upright for the rows (yates row) allows you to use more weight imo. Have a look here and check out your technique. I usually alternate each week between yates and pendlay tbh. T NATION | Perfect Pulling Exercises for a Bigger Back