Training for muscle/size instead of strength - ideal rep range? 4x8 vs 3x12

[original77]

I hear people talk about training for strength and training for size/muscle.

What would give me more size/muscle (putting the strength to the side for a moment)

4 sets of 8 reps

vs

3 sets of 12 reps




I've just started Joe Defrancos Westside for Skinny B*stards Part III and I have a lot of choice on most exercises regarding the reps and sets. 3-4 sets and 8-12 reps being the general choice.

The most extreme example of the above question is on Westsides max rep day my first exercise dumbell bench press requires reps of upto 25. I could only manage 16 kilo for 25 reps x 3 sets.

Where normally I can manage 28 kilo for 8 reps x 3 sets.

Which is better for size?

[roadz]

Quote

I hear people talk about training for strength and training for size/muscle.

What would give me more size/muscle (putting the strength to the side for a moment)

4 sets of 8 reps

vs

3 sets of 12 reps




I've just started Joe Defrancos Westside for Skinny B*stards Part III and I have a lot of choice on most exercises regarding the reps and sets. 3-4 sets and 8-12 reps being the general choice.

The most extreme example of the above question is on Westsides max rep day my first exercise dumbell bench press requires reps of upto 25. I could only manage 16 kilo for 25 reps x 3 sets.

Where normally I can manage 28 kilo for 8 reps x 3 sets.

Which is better for size?

It's relative on so many things that no body can give you a 'correct answer.'

Different muscles in different people will respond differently to different loads and set/rep schemes. The muscles don't think "hey, we've hit 8 reps we better get stronger" and then "oh look, we've hit 12 reps, time to grow."

One thing I would say though, is that either scheme will add size as long as 1) you are eating enough to support growth and 2) you are progressing, whether that be in terms of load or reps.

[johnew]

personally id go for 12 reps and make each set last around 40-50 seconds

[michael88]

I read an article by alwyn cosgrove called muscle by design.

He says instead of the traditional 5x5, or pyramid lowering the reps each time (1 set of 12, 1 of 10 then 1 of 8 for example) do the opposite of the pyramid, so youre lifting the heaviest weight first when your muscles are fresh.

Low reps stimulate growth by building the muscle fibers, high rep stimulates growth by increasing the energy producing structures around the cells (mitochondria)

Your muscles need to remain under tension for 40 to 60 seconds, and for optimal growth you want to be doin 15-20 reps per exercise, so you adjust the number of sets accordingly.

For example:

Bench press 3x6 = 18
Bent over row 3x6
bench press 2x10
bent over row 2x10
bench press 1x15-20
bent over row 1x15-20

This way, instead of training chest, shoulders etc separately, you are training movements Push/pull (horizontally from body). do the same with push/pull vertically from body (upright row/ standing shoulder press) and you have a recipe for success. Compliment with isolation exercises, barbell curls, lying tricep extensions when necessary.

Id post the link but my post count isnt high enough to include links to external sites.

[michael88]

Mistake: i think its high enough now

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n13648656/

[Tauren]

I read something vaguely similar on Tmuscle, suggesting you ignore sets, and aim for a certain rep range. Each sets ends when you can no longer move the weight with maximum force, and you do as many sets as it takes. It suggested 25-35 reps as the best hypertrophy range though.

I have no idea if this is good advice or not, just throwin' it out there.

[original77]

That article is good!

"However, you need to start with the lowest reps--so that you're lifting the heaviest weights first, when your muscles are fresh--before moving on to lighter-weight, higher-rep sets, making it the opposite of the classic pyramid. Using a combination of repetition ranges allows you to work the"

This sounds simliar to Westsides Max Effort day, heavy 3-5 rep barbell benchpress for example, followed by high rep 15-20 dumbell bench press.

"MONDAY – Max-Effort Upper Body

1.
Max-Effort Exercise – work up to a max set of 3-5 reps in one of the following exercises:

*EXERCISE LIST*

2.
Supplemental Exercise – perform 2 sets of max reps in one of the following exercises. (Choose a weight you can perform for 15-20 reps on the 1st set. Use the same weight for both sets and rest 3-4 minutes between sets)."

[michael88]

Its an excellent article, i love his logical approach to something that is so confusing. I had the same problem as you, guessing rep ranges and sets and hoping for the best. I think the working movements instead of muscle group approach is far better too, like he says, its impossible to work on muscle group at a time (ie bench press, uses triceps and shoulders too).

[original77]

hmmmmmmmmm i actually might give this routine a go instead of WFSB p III.

Lot of it makes sense