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Thread: MyoReps

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    #21
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    Dan, thanks for the link to your discussion with Blade and the explanation of how your systems differ. You auto-regulate with the ramp and Blade does it with the clusters, all is clear now.

    My instinct tells me thre is definetly something good in these rep-pause systems.
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    #22
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    No worries, my discussion with him seemed appropriate for this thread so I thought I'd chime in. Glad it was of use.
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    #23
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    Quote Quote
    Originally Posted by DanRoberts View Post
    Before we go on, what factors do you think constitute a growth stimulus?
    Well the article you linked to sums it up.

    Muscle will undergo morphological changes in such a way as to cumatively gain an enhanced ability to maintain homeostasis in the face of the stimulus that displaced it from said homeostasis.

    The only question then, is what is more important, the amplitude of the displacement or the duration ?

    I would guess that the amount ( and speed ) of substrate a muscle can turnover is one of the biggest growth stimulus since this energy liberating pathway has cascading effects on other pathway's that stimulate growth. This is as opposed to just keeping the muscle in a state of low substrate availability that MyoReps will surely do.

    Mechanical Strain is important too ofcourse thats exactly why a HIIT doesnt produce the same effects as leg press or squat etc.

    Personally I like to train with a mix drop-sets and 15RM.

    Having said that ive also noticed that its important to somewhat randomize the way one works out as the homeostasis adapation mentioned above seems to happen surprisingly quickly. To that end I guess MyoReps is another routine you can add to the randomisation pool.
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    #24
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    Amplitude (tension - there's a minimum threshold) > duration (fatigue - again a minimum threshold).

    These are the only factors that we can control with certainty (yes we can influence other things with diet i.e. mTOR with protein but again here tension> diet).
    So whilst many worry endlessly about esoteric diets/timing/training in a bid to influence hormone/growth factors/inhibiting some gene expression/stimulating other genes/satellite cell proliferation etc the body really only needs to know two things - tension and fatigue, and once a minimum threshold of each is reached, the go ahead is given, and all the complicated stuff many think can be influenced (based on short term studies demonstrating actute effects) is taken care of by the body perfectly well without our intervention.

    I'm no Luddite by any means but personally I like to distill complicated into simple if it means clarity - so simple doesn't have to mean simplistic and when all we can do to trigger muscular growth is limited to a couple of external factors there seems no sense to me in worrying about (good to understand of course) those internal factors that we have no hope of influencing - 'where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise'.

    As for randomisation/variation in my opinion it's arguably irrelevent or certainly not as important as many would think.
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    #25
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    Dan, this is a good thread and you explain your points well.
    If like you say with a 6RM load, (nearly) all of the available MU's are recruited from the first rep, why not just do 6+6 rather than 6+2+2+2 ?
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    #26
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    I don't advocate failure so it isn't a true 6RM, so we don't maximally fatigue the HTMU's in that set, but through rest-pause we don't let them recover adequately either, so the HTMU in the clusters are both recruited and trained whilst fatigued from the very first rep of the cluster.

    Compare that with a set of 6, then rest long enough to perform the 6 again, say 2 minutes, and whilst in that second set the HTMU's are recruited from the 1st rep of the 2nd set, they aren't fatigued initially and aren't therefore being trained through fatigue.

    Sufficient load is the first aim, which is why we ramp up to the highest weight we could handle for 6, and fatigue is the secondary aim which could be achieved through multiple sets of 6 or arguably more efficiently through the clusters that both Blade and I espouse because every rep of the clusters is training the HTMU's whilst fatigued.
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    What are the advangtages of doing 6+2+2+2 compared with 9+3+3+3 ?
    Should we employ both ?
    You arn't necessarily faster with 6+2+2+2 because it will take a bit longer to ramp up to a 6RM.

    I don't think I would be very happy with either for Squats for safety reasons. I suppose with Deadlifts we can always drop the bar - lol. Any recommendations?
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    #28
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    Quote Quote
    Originally Posted by Dadonda View Post
    What are the advangtages of doing 6+2+2+2 compared with 9+3+3+3 ?
    Should we employ both ?
    You arn't necessarily faster with 6+2+2+2 because it will take a bit longer to ramp up to a 6RM.

    I don't think I would be very happy with either for Squats for safety reasons. I suppose with Deadlifts we can always drop the bar - lol. Any recommendations?
    With 9 reps you start dropping below the threshold intensity required (roughly 80-85% 1RM) to recruit the HTMU's from the first rep. The clusters afterwards would be fine and the additional volume whilst appropriately fatigued would likely make up for the first few reps of the 9 rep set.

    That said this isn't far off what DC training advocate.

    I mention in my article that for particularly strong individuals this threshold may be lower i.e. Kroc rows for 20+ reps work great for him but not so great if your weights are pink.
    So lifting heavy stuff lots of times is great but you need to be storng enough first - which is one reason why DC don't recommend DC to beginners.

    My preference is for the lower figures, metabolic fatigue i.e. the burn tends to influence when you terminate a set more so than when the reps are lower.

    Horses for courses really, in the article I posted, I state that the parameters (load/volume etc) for growth are fairly narrow but still large enough to allow many successful variations on a theme, DC vs 5/3/1 big but boring vs Myo-reps vs HCT-12 vs Max-OT vs starting strength etc scratch the surface and they all fall within the parameters.
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    #29
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    Have to say, from the way Dan described it, i like the sound of the HC-12 more. It works fine with total body training and compound lifts so it would suit my style of training better.

    I'm still not convinced that rest-pause is dangerous for the big compound lifts. People have been using rest pause for the 'big 3' for donkeys years without any problems. If you are experienced enough technically with the lifts, its fine.
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    #30
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    As for squats, well you'll have to give them a try, people have been doing 20-rep squats (still rest-pause) for decades and many very strong individuals are doing this program with monster weights.
    Check this training log out (he's using 600lbs for his squat) -


    NickW's HCT-12 Log

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