Sage

[PROF]

In the absence of a general training forum where all members can congregate to discuss broader topics associated with fitness I had a bit of a debate regarding where this thread should be posted. I decided to stick it into the bodybuilding section for the simple reason that I probably know more about bodybuilding than powerlifting or strongman etc. however this thread is not intended to be limited to anyone discipline.

The basic premise is to instigate a bit of discussion because lets face it this place can be quiet at times, and I know there are smart people a plenty whose opinion isn't expressed very much unless a specific topic is brought up. I'm after thoughts or beliefs from others on training (theory, implementation, programming, technique, injury etc) as I am genuinely interested in differing approaches to physical culture and the plethora of means to reach anyone goal.

'Sage' can be anything that you are thinking about; an observation, something on your mind, a personal experience or a recent epiphany, but expect you musings to be discussed or possibly challenged - hopefully in an respectable manner. The aim is for all of us to be a bit wiser upon reading.

[PROF]

First entry

I believe that most people are not doing enough pulling movements.

The amount of guys walking around with slumped forward shoulders because of an upper back weakness is incredible. All of the people I know who have incurred premature shoulder injuries (bar one) don't/didn't do much of anything to strengthen the upper back. I'm not suggesting that a weak back causes shoulder injuries but I am suggesting that a weak back greatly increases your chances of damaging your shoulder or supporting muscular.

[stronglikewood]

So what is the best advice to stop rounded/weak shoulders? Face pulls seem like they might help.

[hailtotheking]

Since I switched from powerlifting to oly lifting my posture has improved dramatically, esp. in my shoulder girdle (it naturally sits in a more 'retracted' position now). Constantly doing cleans, snatches, and high pulls (i.e pulling, pulling, and more pulling) seems to have helped a lot. Front squats unsing the olympic grip also seems to help isometrically strengthen the upper back.

[stronglikewood]

HTK- with regards to front squats and isometrically strengthening the upper back. I find my upper back starts to round at the end of front squat sets. Do you think carrying on a set with rounded shoulders only re-enforces having rounded shoulders? Perhaps I should stop the set when this happens (though my legs still aren't fatigued)?

[hailtotheking]

How many reps are you doing front squat for? Peoples back's normally round with this movement because they do too many reps. Its not a good movement for high reps because the upper back fatigues so quickly in this position. Most weightlifters do it for sets of 3's or 2's, very very occasionally 5's. You need to reset after every rep. This means taking in your air, and driving the elbows up. As you descend drive your elbows up. At the bottom of the squat also drive your elbows up as much as possible. In fact, just keep pushing the elbows up as much as possible!

[stronglikewood]

Of late, 8-12 reps. I had the same problem on the last sets when going for 4-6 reps in the past. Maybe resetting between sets is all that is required to fix the problem.

[PROF]

Quote

So what is the best advice to stop rounded/weak shoulders? Face pulls seem like they might help.

Certainly would, unfortunately though I never really do facepulls, it is perhaps something I should start because I know powerlifters use it was an accessory lift to the bench press. Raw lifters in particular seem to do a lot of upper back work, shrugs, bb rows, and lat pull downs etc. Certainly I have noticed being a lot more stable in the bench press when I can have my lats and traps tight. The tricky part for me is building the area between the should blades, I can never seem to hit it just right... sitting here typing I'm doing the facepull movement and it seems to be hitting that area well. Back into the routine they go.

Quote

Since I switched from powerlifting to oly lifting my posture has improved dramatically, esp. in my shoulder girdle (it naturally sits in a more 'retracted' position now). Constantly doing cleans, snatches, and high pulls (i.e pulling, pulling, and more pulling) seems to have helped a lot. Front squats unsing the olympic grip also seems to help isometrically strengthen the upper back.

I cycle power snatches and front squat in and out of my workout and have noticed the exact same thing. If you have bad upper body posture front squat will uncover it in the form of the bar falling of your shoulder and will eventually help rectify said posture problem; one caveat however (as you said) is that you must use the clean grip, double overhand automatically rounds your shoulders forward, whereas clean grip it's upper back arched, shoulders/elbows up to create that shelf behind the front deltoid. I use to have the problem of propping up the bar with hands and doing more reps, which killed my wrists, recently however I now do my front squat with straps this guy being the inspiration for that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiZNX9tCuEg

Good points

[PROF]

As for the reps question I struggle with anything over 3, I can manage upwards of 10 or 11 but in each case it seems to be my upper back/shoulders tiring before legs. Higher reps seem easier with the double overhand grip than the clean grip either way though if you can do high reps with a moderately heavy weight... respect.

[Fred]

1. I am now focusing much more on DB work for my pushing movements (except BB Push Press) and doing all variations of Rows and pulling movements to try and strengthen the whole base (back and shoulder girdle) for bench press etc. Plus a big back just looks awesome.

2. From personal experience and just opening my eyes and looking around the gym, I would say that at least 60% of all lifters favour one shoulder over the other when benching, with the resulting uneven bar position probably aggravating the problem further. "Evening up" the shoulders is something a lot of people could do with before trying to bench big weights imo.

3. Weightlifting (as in compound/oly movements) should be taught properly in schools from the age of 14-16 as part of P.E. instead of **** like badminton.