Close and wide grip Chin Up

[Barrington]

What is the advantages of both?
Am i right in thinking close grip is better than wide grip for the biceps?
Is there much point in doing close grip pullups (palm facing wall)?
I could do a google search but i am interested in what works best for forum users.

[PROF]

I can't speak for others but I do all variations of pullups/chinups however I mainly use wide grip pullup, shoulder grip pullup and close grip chinup because they all do slightly different things.

Preface - Cliffs at the bottom;
I consider the pullup and chinup as having two positions, the stretch at the top (the scapula drifted upwards) and the full contraction at the bottom (scapula pulled down and or back), effective lat recruitment imo is about how you work the scapula through different range of motions. Since different grips affect shoulder and arms position and therefore scapula position, each variation will have different scapula motions and ultimately work the back differently i.e. the type of stretch at the top, the overall range of motion and contraction at the bottom will all be affected by grip and hand position. I do several variations because I don't feel like I can't cover all bases with one movement.

With the wide grip pullup you get an outward stretch of the upper lats and the Teres muscles because the scapula are being pulled away from the body (upwards and out). This is why you often hear 'wide grip for wide lats' because the stretch feels like it is pulling your upper back muscles outwards, but getting your lats wider is not that simple, although you do get a good outward stretch from wide grip what you sacrifice is a much greater range of motion because the position of your shoulders and arms limits scapula movement and as such reduces range of motion making it harder to contract the lats fully.

With the close grip chinup the stretch at the top is different because the scapula is being pulled directly up, it's still strong stretch but it seems to stretch a different portion of the lats. The biggest advantage however with the close grip exercises is the increased range of motion at the bottom. The position of the shoulders and arms allows the scapula to be pulled back and down further which results in a harder contraction and in my experience a greater recruitment of the lower lat musculature.

Close grip is generally considered to work your biceps more, as is underhand (chinup) vs overhand grip (pullup).

Cliffs
-Wide grips stretch to your upper lats and Teres well but sacrifice your range of motion
-Close grips give a still stretches your lats but the biggest benefit is the increased range of motion.

[stavrog1]

Prof - I like how you explained that and think I will be alternating between wide and close each week now. How would you compare bent rows to these two exercises?

[PROF]

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Prof - I like how you explained that and think I will be alternating between wide and close each week now. How would you compare bent rows to these two exercises?

The basic mechanism I think still holds true i.e. a greater range of motion with close grip resulting in better full contraction. The stretch position in my experience is not as much as a factor with bb rows, for instance with heavy barbell rows I've never really been able to let my scapula drift forward enough to get a good stretch, anytime I've tried I had to lose upper back tightness which I think is dangerous when you are performing an exercise whose safety requires you to be stable. It can be done though, Arnold can be seen rolling his scapula forward and down when doing bb rows (YouTube - ‪avl part 2: Training‬‏ @2.07) however note that he has to bend over to do it and note the light weight. Modern bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman have some scapula drift forward but not a whole lot (YouTube - ‪Ronnie Coleman Back Training (1)‬‏ @1.45) and we all know how his back looks. In my opinion don't sweat it about the stretch in bb rows.

With regards to close grip with barbells rows it definitely gives you a better contraction, the ROM is greater because the scapula has more room to move due to a combination of shoulder and arm position but also because of the greater clearance between you and the bar meaning the bar has to be pulled further before it reaches your torso.

With the dumbells it is much easier to stretch the lats and much safer to do so because you are braced (just make sure you are high enough so the dumbell is not wacking the ground), additionally it is much easier to get a full contraction because your grip and shoulder and arm width are fluid and not fixed in place by holding a bar. BTW I think it is ok to twist a bit at the top of dumbell rows, I've never seen it written anywhere but I feel my lats contracting on the side that I am twisting too. Come to think of it I'm not sure why I don't do db rows more often lol.

The 'stetch position' and 'contraction position can also be applied with T-bar rows and seated rows, you just need to find your own sweet spot, check out Aleksej Lesukov doing seated cable rows (YouTube - ‪BEST JUNIOR BODYBUIDER - Aleksej Lesukov 2009‬‏ @1.21) the guy is using as much scapula motion as he can muster, a bit excessive for my taste.

I'll end this by saying that getting my back 'working' properly is always difficult, some days I can hit my back well and on others feels like that darn thing is not working at all, these tips however do help but the bottom line is that you do what works. All this talk means nothing if your back is not growing.

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Edit - Stavrog1 I think I got what you were asking wrong. What you were meaning is how does pullups/chinups compare to a barbell row?

If that's the case my answer is that I don't know because I've always done both and have always been of the opinion that for a big back you need to perform at least one vertical pulling movement and one horizontal rowing movement. I consider both essential.

[Tox]

do them all

[stavrog1]

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do them all

on the Bill Star 5x5 at the moment so no can do i'm afraid. I did them all in my split workouts. Think I may alternate between wide and close grip pull-ups in the future when it comes to doing them once a week for assistance though.

[Was_once_fat_dave]

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on the Bill Star 5x5 at the moment so no can do i'm afraid. I did them all in my split workouts. Think I may alternate between wide and close grip pull-ups in the future when it comes to doing them once a week for assistance though.

why not? swap out the curls on the 3rd session for chins/pullups or add the to the 2nd session as on that day you're out the gyn in the blink of an eye,

[Tox]

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on the Bill Star 5x5 at the moment so no can do i'm afraid. I did them all in my split workouts. Think I may alternate between wide and close grip pull-ups in the future when it comes to doing them once a week for assistance though.

whatever I am doing...thats pretty much usually what I do....WG pulls..then CG chins and alternate.