Pre Exhaust - Good or Bad

[James Copping]

"if I benched 120 kilos to failure in 8 reps last week, but only benched 100 kilos to failure in 6 this week I haven't progressed! What's important is that the muscle failed...it doesn't really matter what weight you failed at you still exhausted the muscle and it will be forced to adapt"

Totally incorrect im afraid. The single most important thing in any strength sport(PLing BBing OLing whatever) is progressive overload, lifting more weight is ultimately what makes you bigger. If you did as you described above you will have become weaker, therefore either your CNS will have become less efficiant or your muscles will have become weaker and hence smaller(or indeed vice versa)

[simon m]

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"if I benched 120 kilos to failure in 8 reps last week, but only benched 100 kilos to failure in 6 this week I haven't progressed! What's important is that the muscle failed...it doesn't really matter what weight you failed at you still exhausted the muscle and it will be forced to adapt"

Totally incorrect im afraid. The single most important thing in any strength sport(PLing BBing OLing whatever) is progressive overload, lifting more weight is ultimately what makes you bigger. If you did as you described above you will have become weaker, therefore either your CNS will have become less efficiant or your muscles will have become weaker and hence smaller(or indeed vice versa)

I agree Meat, but only if weights show a downward trend over a few sessions. An isolated decrease is insufficient data to come to a valid conclusion and that's why all trainers should have a journal as without, you're peeing in the dark.

[James Copping]

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I agree Meat, but only if weights show a downward trend over a few sessions. An isolated decrease is insufficient data to come to a valid conclusion and that's why all trainers should have a journal as without, you're peeing in the dark.

Agreed.

[hailtotheking]

Progressive overload can occur in other ways as well, such as getting more reps, or performing more sets, or performing workouts within a shorter time interval (i.e decrease rest periods. (these all increase Time Under Tension, and will thus trigger new adaptations in muscle.

[simon m]

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Progressive overload can occur in other ways as well, such as getting more reps, or performing more sets, or performing workouts within a shorter time interval (i.e decrease rest periods. (these all increase Time Under Tension, and will thus trigger new adaptations in muscle.

I agree and that's why in my journal, I have a column for rest times as well.

To anyone who is new to training, the best advice I can give is get a journal, mines even on a spreadshet so I can do graphs!

[James Copping]

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Progressive overload can occur in other ways as well, such as getting more reps, or performing more sets, or performing workouts within a shorter time interval (i.e decrease rest periods. (these all increase Time Under Tension, and will thus trigger new adaptations in muscle.

yeah, but these are all things that mean you're stronger. SO maybe the week after you could do more weight.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

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"if I benched 120 kilos to failure in 8 reps last week, but only benched 100 kilos to failure in 6 this week I haven't progressed! What's important is that the muscle failed...it doesn't really matter what weight you failed at you still exhausted the muscle and it will be forced to adapt"

Totally incorrect im afraid. The single most important thing in any strength sport(PLing BBing OLing whatever) is progressive overload, lifting more weight is ultimately what makes you bigger. If you did as you described above you will have become weaker, therefore either your CNS will have become less efficiant or your muscles will have become weaker and hence smaller(or indeed vice versa)

I couldn't disagree more. I also think the words 'strength' and 'sport' do not belong in a sentence with 'bodybuilding', which is primarily an aesthetic pursuit unlike the other two you mentioned. The appellation 'sport' has been given to bodybuilding by the Weider organisation in an attempt to have it recognised by the IOC! Just because there are bodybuilding competitions does not make it a sport - beauty pageants are competitions judged on largely aesthetic considerations and they are not sport. Even the process of lifting weights [when applied to bodybuilding] does not make it a sport because there is no competition but with oneself [or at least that's how it should be!]. Progression in 'bodybuilding' is purely a question of size, balance, symmetry and definition, etc. Muscular size and strength do not always correlate. Strength per se may depend on other factors such as how many muscle fibres fire simultaneously and leverage, for example. A bigger muscle may be stronger, but a stronger muscle is not necessarily always bigger.

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I agree Meat, but only if weights show a downward trend over a few sessions. An isolated decrease is insufficient data to come to a valid conclusion and that's why all trainers should have a journal as without, you're peeing in the dark.

I think this is what I said and meat missed that completely!

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yeah, but these are all things that mean you're stronger. SO maybe the week after you could do more weight.

Again this is what I said!

[James Copping]

Do u actually lift mate? I can say with 100% confidence I have never gained muscle without progressing in a lift.

Quibbling over whether BBing is a sport or not makes no difference. Progression in bodybuilding is about size mainly, but the extra size is due to more strenght. Ever seen an IFBB pro benching a max of 300lbs?

To be honest I dont really see what you are trying to get across you seem to say things we disagree with them and then u say we dont understand what you're saying and are agreeign with you.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

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Do u actually lift mate? I can say with 100% confidence I have never gained muscle without progressing in a lift.

Quibbling over whether BBing is a sport or not makes no difference. Progression in bodybuilding is about size mainly, but the extra size is due to more strenght. Ever seen an IFBB pro benching a max of 300lbs?

To be honest I dont really see what you are trying to get across you seem to say things we disagree with them and then u say we dont understand what you're saying and are agreeign with you.

I weight lifted for 8 years straight. I didn't consider myself a bodybuilder because I did not want to compete and I was not interested in building that type of 'over-the-top' physique. I did not consider myself a strength athlete, because being able to lift humungous weights was not my primary goal. I increased the size of my muscles and improved their definition and, yes, to an extent got stronger. But I viewed weights and the lifting of them as tools to achieve my goal of improved body composition and shape and not as a goal in itself. I looked for a gradual progression in the amount of weight I lifted and/or the number of reps I lifted them for, but I didn't panic if, every now and then, I lifted a little less weight than previously as long as the muscle was worked to its full extent and a little further down the track I managed to lift a little more and/or lift it for more reps. So I am agreeing AND disagreeing with you...you seem to see everything as black and white with no grey areas and in the short-term instead of the long-term...or it comes across like that because, as 43 said, one sentence posts are open to misinterpretation! Also, what makes you think that whatever works for you is what must work for everyone else? I can also assure you that I've seen people in the gym with impressive physiques who couldn't lift much weight and others who could lift impressive weights and were nowhere near as impressively built.

[simon m]

Strength increases are an easy measure of success, but in terms of bodybuilding a bit of a misnomer as I'm not as srong as I was in years gone by, but I'm bigger and my muscles feel denser than in years gone by and this is down to better technique and diet.