NU's Quest for Carnivory!

[NU_nutrition_TS]

With due acknowledgment to JohnSmooth for the title of this thread!

Having been low carbing (high fat, moderate protein) for over two years now, I have decided to up the ante, so-to-speak, and do a further bit of experimentation on myself.

Up to about two months ago I had been consuming a limited amount of green veg (mainly cauliflower, broccoli and occasionally spinach). Over the last several weeks I have consumed none. I continued to eat a small quantity of fruit per day - one or two kiwis and one or two servings of mixed berries - but as of today I will be consuming none. This means, aside from limited use of tiny quantities of herbs/spices as condiment/flavouring, I will be consuming no foods from the plant kingdom and all my foods will come from the animal kingdom - red meat, poultry, fish, eggs, cheeses and cream - hence my quest for 'carnivory'!

I've been reading up on the experiences of Vilhjalmur Stefansson (Adventures In Diet) including his 12 month stay in Bellevue Hospital, along with one of his expedition partners, in a clinical trial of his all meat diet (as well as other long-term carnivores). And it has got me thinking whether an all carnivorous diet (at least all animal-source foods) is likely to be as good if not better than an all vegetarian diet!

Anyway, my starting stats are as follows:

Weight: 92.3KG (203LBS)
Body fat %: 14.8%
Fat mass: 13.7KG (30LBS)
Lean mass: 78.6KG (172.9LBS)

My BF% is just on the 'lean' side of 'ideal' according to the Accu-Measure chart for men of my age group (46-50). And my body weight of 92KG has been pretty much constant over the last several months to a year (having lost excess fat in the preceding 12 months after switching to a low carb, high fat diet).

Initially, I'm just interested to see if I last a week without any plant sources of foods (or carbs) as I expect this will be the lowest carb I've ever been.

My last (fruit inclusive) meal was yesterday at work at about 5pm. I had not eaten again until 11.30am today (a big brunch of salmon, scrambled eggs and a dollop of soured cream). No hunger or loss of energy. Went to town shopping this morning on an empty stomach.

I reckon my brunch breaks down as follows (approx):

Total cals: 696
PRO: 71.6g
CHO: 4.5g
FAT: 41.1g
Macro ratio P:C:F (as % total cals): 41:3:55 (note carbs are still not zero!).

I will be trying to bring the fat up against the protein with succeeding meals (nearer 30:5:65 to 20:5:75). I will post updates weekly assuming I last more than a week.

[Duncan]

It sounds as if you expect to have to re-introduce plant foods within a week or two, what are you hoping to get out of this experiment?

[simon m]

NU

Sounds bloody boring to me mate, but better than being high carb!

[AlexTemper]

Nu, I shall be reading with great interest.

At some point I'll be taking a similar experiment which will be done in stages.

I'll be using purely red meat as a primary protein and fat source with eggs being the other. I will supplement Omega 3 and Fish Oils.

I will keep carbs in at first as oats for breakfast, non starchy vegetables through the day and evening meals, 250ml juice through workout and 10g WSM post workout. The workout carbs will not change, however over time I'll look to reduce morning carbs to maybe 10g and veg to greens and leafy greens.

Ultimately I'm looking for a transition to living off red meat in the form of steaks and chopped steak mince for burgers eaten with grained mustard and salsa, eggs and greens.

This I think will closely resemble the diets from the Golden Era of BBing in the 70's.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

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It sounds as if you expect to have to re-introduce plant foods within a week or two, what are you hoping to get out of this experiment?

My motto in most things is 'expect the worst but hope for the best'! So the worst that I expect is that after a very short time I will suffer from the lack of vitamin C or my 'sweet tooth' will make me crave some fruit. The best I hope for is to duplicate Vilhjalmur Stefansson's results in the Bellevue clinical trial, which was to emerge after 12 months of a meat and fat diet without any signs of vitamin C deficiency or symptoms of scurvy and be as healthy and fit as always!

I'm also looking to see if the total lack of fibre has any negative consequences: I already reckon I had far less dietary fibre than is often quoted as essential (even with the small amount of fruit I was eating) and did not suffer from chronic constipation, which is often the scare tactic used to make us eat more 'sawdust'!

Other than that, it is a suck-it-and-see trial. If it works with no signs or symptoms of deficiency or disease, I may carry it on indefinitely: I've read of at least one person who has eaten this way for forty-odd years and is in his seventies, so there is no reason to suppose I will be stone dead in one week!

It may just show that many of the nutrients we are told are essential are actually not that important. I have some theories on vitamin C and scurvy...but I hold those in reserve until I have some tangible first person experience to go on!

I also want to see what effects it has on my sensations of hunger and satiety, meal size and frequency and bodyweight and composition.

Quote

NU

Sounds bloody boring to me mate, but better than being high carb!

It's funny you should say that but I have become increasingly aware that I no longer eat for pleasure (though I would not say I detest my meals either!) neither do I crave particular foods or tastes as I once did. For me food is fuel and eating is just a way of filling up the energy tank. So I don't think it will be boring in that sense. I very much anticipate that it will be better than high carb!

[AlexTemper]

Nu, If you don't have any issues regarding passing food and you suspect your fibre in take isn't that high then I doubt this will cause you any trouble.

As you're aware, my protein in take is high but I don't purposely supplement fibre or eat food with a high fibre content and don't suffer any ill effects.

I think this is simpy genetic where some individuals have dietry passing issues while others, don't.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

You may be right, Alex, though I don't put much emphasis on the genetic angle due to the influence of environmental factors on genotype producing phenotype. Also, anytime you change dietary habits (even slightly) you are apt to have a disruption of bowel habit until your system adjusts to the changes. Probably a great many people dropping fibre from their diet and experiencing acute constipation will panic and either eat more fibre or try laxatives rather than wait to see whether the symptoms subside with time! Have you ever noticed a change just by going on holiday - even when you try to keep diet fairly constant?

That's why I'm interested to see you are adopting a gradual approach to dietary changes (my own preference)...I think it works much better than making sudden, sweeping changes. It gives the body time to acclimatize!

[AlexTemper]

I tend to notice the extra flactuance from flying more than anything else

But yes, I agree subtle differences in the way food is prepared or cooked can have an initial effect.

The subtle change would be for 2 reasons. One for general health as I would bet that taking away carbs almost instantly would have me down with a cold within a week, almost guarenteed. Secondly as you've mentioned already, hunger won't be a problem as I'll still eat big but there will be cravings. I'll re feed periodically but a slow transition will also help.

[Duncan]

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The best I hope for is to duplicate Vilhjalmur Stefansson's results in the Bellevue clinical trial, which was to emerge after 12 months of a meat and fat diet without any signs of vitamin C deficiency or symptoms of scurvy and be as healthy and fit as always!

Sorry, Nu, but if the best you're hoping for is a level of health 'as good as' your current state I don't see why you'd want to cut out fresh fruit and veg. There doesn't seem to be and clear advantage to what you're proposing, especially since you've said you find fruit help with your sweet tooth. I can't see the motivation for being so restrictive with your food choices.

[Wotan]

One book you should read in conjunction with this experiment Nu is "Andes". (Leastways I think that's the title from memory).

It tells of the story of the Andes air crash survivors and how, in the end, they were forced to eat the bodies of the dead. Compared to your effort there are some interesting points.

Again, all this is from memory, so no nitpicking, ok. Anyway, they ate a minimum of four ounces a day - this might have been a maximum as well to conserve sources - I can't remember. This ration was raw meat, of course it was frozen (the temperatures were well below freezing at all times) and was "defrosted" on the plane wing in the sunlight. The same goes for water, it was melted snow. No chlorine maybe but still not a cup of tea exactly.

The ambient temperature was always below freezing, admittedly they had several layers of clothing (filched fromthe dead) but this does not really compensate for external warmth and a poor diet with its metabolic consequences.

When they were rescued they were found to have a minor deficiency of one vitamin, I cannot remember whether it was C or K.

And obviously - they lived.

What about tea, coffeee etc? Yes or No??