Macros vs Kcals (and a misconception)

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Hi all,

Just thought i'd pop in with this one for debate.

Generally it is acknowledged that ~1.5g/kg BW of protein will help maintain muscle/help build muscle during training...

...But i've had a thought.

Surely this calculation is a little skewed is it not?

Fat takes no maintenance to keep. So to eat 1.5g/kg BW of protein is inaccurate. Surely it should be your lean weight that you then leverage the amount of protein you take in against?

So for instance if you're carrying 20% bodyfat at 100kg, your lean weight is actually 80kg, so it would be 80x1.5=120g as opposed to 100x1.5=150g would it not? And then all your other macros would fall into line accordingly.

It just seems that maybe people are taking in more calories than actually needed to maintain their macros/lean muscle weight when really they may do better eating less...?

Edit: On the other hand, if working on lean body weight (which is surely more accurate) and if protein intake should be ~1.5g/kg BW, then it would actually be more like ~2g/kg LBM (Lean Body Mass)...

What do people think?

[Luffers]

1-1.5g is just a recomendation, I think you need to look at the overall picture more i.e overall calories per day.

I do agree though, I think people do eat to much some times in regards to bulking, I know I have in the past.

The often recomended bodyweight in pounds x 18 to bulk up I think is a little OTT. For me thats 4248 cals. I'm pretty sure if I ate that much a lot of it would end up on the hips.

[Skip]

I think the ~2g/kg LBM is probably about right the more I think about it... As long as you keep your other macros in check So for me it's 50/35/15 Prot/Carbs/Fat you should quite easily avoid over-eating.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

It is not strictly true that there are no maintenance issues with body fat or that it does not need protein. Body fat is stored as triglycerides (three fatty acids bound to a glycerol molecule) but these triglycerides are synthesised and stored in fat cells called adipocytes. All cells in the human body usually require proteins for synthesis and maintenance. Also adipocytes make and use both enzymes and hormones, which usually require protein for their manufacture.

[Skip]

This is true NU, but surely the maintenance of fat cells would be nowhere near the amount of maintenance needed to maintain/repair/build muscle fibre?

It just seems skewed that say for instance a bloke is carrying 25% body fat that if he follows the 1.5g/kg BW method and he's 100kg, even if he maintains macro splits he is likely to be taking in more calories than needed and is inevitably going to put that on as fat - which is going to make life even harder when it comes to losing that fat...?

[NU_nutrition_TS]

I agree that most people (into strength training & bodybuilding) probably consume far too much protein than is strictly necessary, so basing requirements on lean mass is no bad thing from that point of view. But, to be honest, I'd wager that the protein requirement for general whole body repair and maintenance (including adipose tissue) far outstrips what is required to build the relatively small additional amounts muscle tissue on a daily basis.

[greg]

Is it such a bad thing though if your intake of protein is above your required maintenance ? Surely whats not needed ends up as waste? I can imagine this is a problem for an endomorphic, But surely a mesomorphic would not find a problem with additional protein! I think your probably right about protein intake for lean mass less BF would make sense.

[sendos]

Dietary protein above the amount required for mantinence/growth etc is just converted into glucose or ketones (depending on differnt amino acids) which are then used as a metabolic substrate or stored as fat. The amine group cleaved from the amino acid during the process of conversion is then excreted in the urine. The metabolism of protein is also thermogenic (requires energy to occur) so the net kcals added your totals are always less then just counting the calories in the food your eating.

Excess protein isnt really a problem at all for any of the bodytypes, aslong as its inline with total calories.

[hailtotheking]

It is generally effective to base dietary protein recommendations lean mass if you are trying to improve your body composition (i.e stay lean). So with the 100kg bloke whose carrying 25% body fat, his protein requirements would only need to be based upon 75kg of lean mass.

However, for putting on more mass (mainly muscle) i have found it somewhat effective to increase protein intake to the 2g/kg mark.

[Skip]

It was just a thought. I can bet there are a lot of people who are wondering why they're putting so much fat on, when they think they are sticking to what are generally recommended splits...

I've always calculated most of my stuff based on lean mass anyway - just habit.