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  1. Default Caffeine = Insulin spike?

    #1
    MP Senior

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    Hey everyone

    I am in a dilemma (what's new huh?).

    I eat really low carb and read in one of my books that Caffeine should be avoided as it raises insulin and will "turn off my fat burning mechanism" WTF??

    I though caffeine was a good thing for fat loss?

    I have been having about 1800mg per day and went cold turkey 3 days ago now I'm behaving like some defective, crazy sloth person.

    If I am eating <50g carbs per day, 1g of protein per lb of BW and the rest from fat, what does that mean for the Caffeine Yay or no??

    I know 1800mg is pretty excessive and that's a maximum, I do usually have less.

    Any advice?

    Charlotte xxx
    If you build it - they will come!
  2.  
    #2
    MP L337

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    I'm sure someone else will chime in and tell me i'm wrong, but caffiene stimulates catecholamine (adrenaline, noradrenaline, dopamine) secretion but not insulin. From what i've read catecholamines have negative effects on insulin sensitivity. So although caffeine doesn't directly cause a spike in insulin it will force the body to produce more insulin (due to the resistance) in the instance of a rise in blood sugar. But considering your on an ultra low carbohydrate diet, you're blood glucose regulation will be pretty tight and therefore insulin resistance isn't so much of a problem.

    Even still if your active and exercise regularly i'd say the caffeine induced insulin resistance will be offset. The short answer in my opinion, keep shoveling in the coffee.... i know i will.
    Using this code with your first order will make you a ripped machine. Use with the up most of care!
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    Disclaimer: All posts on these forums are for information and discussion purposes only and solely the views of the forum member who posted. No posts constitute or replace medical advice. Any information should be considered in regard to specific circumstances. All advice is followed at your own risk and should be followed up with your own research or doctors advice.

    sendos is a Supplements & Training and Diet Moderator.
  3.  
    #3
    <-- Tom

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    Ive not got much to bring to this, but you mean your taking up to 9 mp caffiene pills a day, or 36 proplus?
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  4.  
    #4
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    Some of that's coffee (plus just realised I did the maths wrong) I have 1-2 caffeine tabs per day (200-400mg) and around 10 cups of string coffee.

    I think I'll go back on the coffee but not as much as before.

    Thanks
    If you build it - they will come!
  5.  
    #5
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    I lifted this from another forum (cough, cough!):

    Quote Quote
    A DISTURBING Study On Caffiene by John M. Berardi

    Coffee Drinkers Beware!

    While there were several interesting topics presented, including a lecture given by a MD/PhD and research superstar Wim Saris who confirmed all of my incessant ramblings about the value of protein and amino acids with glucose and maltodextrin in a post-workout drink, the topic I found most interesting was the research presented on caffeine/coffee and insulin sensitivity.

    For a while now I've been cautioning my clients and T-mag readers about the ill effects caffeine and typical thermogenic agents have on insulin sensitivity. Well, at the University of Guelph they've been investigating this issue intensively and here's what they found:

    1) Caffeine intake (in all of its forms) decreases whole body glucose disposal (carbohydrate uptake) by 15-30%.

    2) Caffeine intake decreases skeletal muscle glucose disposal by 50%.

    3) When consumed with a standard carbohydrate breakfast, caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity, leading to large increases in blood insulin. But even in the face of this insulin surge, blood glucose doesn't disappear at a normal rate. When the body can't take up carbohydrates properly (as when drinking coffee), it releases loads of insulin to help out. However, the coffee actually prevents the insulin from doing this job and you end up with high insulin and glucose. That, my friends, is the serum profile of the obese, type II diabetic.

    4) Caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity for at least three hours (this is the duration of the longest study they've performed), but the true duration of the effect isn't known. I speculate that it's at least five hours, the half life of caffeine.

    In this case, many people are probably walking around all day with impaired insulin sensitivity. If you're a coffee drinker you should realize that you're living your life like a diabetic except during the times that it could actually be diagnosed. When you go to the doc to see why you're so fat or you feel like crap (if you have any glucose or insulin tolerance problems), what do you have to do? You have to fast overnight and avoid coffee! So 99% of your waking life you're functionally diabetic and that 1% of the time when it really matters and can be diagnosed, you're not. No wonder experts suggest that 50% of North Americans are diabetics who aren't diagnosed as such.

    5) In one study, four groups were used to evaluate the effect of caffeine and glycemic index on insulin sensitivity.

    The first group got decaf and a low-GI breakfast. They saw a normal blood glucose and insulin response.

    The second group got decaf and a high-GI breakfast. They saw a bigger insulin and glucose response in the blood.

    However, when the low GI group got regular coffee with breakfast, their blood profile was worse than that of those who got the high-glycemic breakfast and decaf. Therefore coffee/caffeine can turn a low glycemic meal into a high glycemic meal!

    Finally, the group that drank coffee and had the high-glycemic meal ended up looking like diabetics.

    6) One interesting hypothesis generated at the seminar was as follows: In terms of insulin sensitivity, caffeine alone is worse than coffee and obviously (as seen above) coffee is worse than nothing. However, some people believe that certain substances in coffee (specific quinides) can actually increase glucose disposal and improve insulin sensitivity. While the quinide content of coffee isn't strong enough to counter the effects of the caffeine, the quinides in decaf coffee may actually increase glucose and insulin tolerance. This hypothesis still needs to be tested and proper doses have yet to be discussed; however, keep your eyes out for this research in the near future.

    So the final word on coffee and caffeine is this stay the heck away from it! The only way to minimize the damage it causes may be to drink your coffee with a very low carbohydrate meal and eat only low carb meals for the next few hours after your coffee intake. I know, I know, it now sucks to be a coffee drinker! But giving up your java may bring you some great health and physique benefits.
    I only drink organic decaffeinated coffee.
  6.  
    #6
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    One or two empirical studies won't desuade me from still taking caffeine when historical data suggests otherwise.

    Charlotte, I'm curious though do you take it everyday? If so how are your sleep patterns?mine is crap, but I only take about 200mg of caffeine per day.
  7.  
    #7
    <-- Tom

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    Yeah seems like its a good thing to have for weight loss, you dont want to be on it forever though, my dad drank 8-12 cups of coffee a day through school and doctoring (probs about 15 years) and got a stomach ulcer as a result and cant have any now. Also obviously you get a dependance and could end up with caffienism.

    But on cut definetly seems like a great idea.
    My advice useful? Then use MP45436 to get 5% off on your first order and earn me some reward points!
    My training log Here
    Current 5RM's: SQ 145kg, DL 172.5kg, Bench 112.5kg, Press 67.5kg, BOR 102.5kg
  8.  
    #8
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    Coffee doesn't really effect me unless i have like 6 teaspoons in one cup so i never really get buzzy even though i drink atleast 4 cups a day! I'd buy decafe but its more expensive and i'm cheap
    Using this code with your first order will make you a ripped machine. Use with the up most of care!
    MP2484
    *may or may not make you a ripped machine...infact it most certainly wont.

    Disclaimer: All posts on these forums are for information and discussion purposes only and solely the views of the forum member who posted. No posts constitute or replace medical advice. Any information should be considered in regard to specific circumstances. All advice is followed at your own risk and should be followed up with your own research or doctors advice.

    sendos is a Supplements & Training and Diet Moderator.
  9.  
    #9
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    I wouldn't touch decaf personally.

    Although back to the OP, here is a good article on caffeine consumption:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/res...ch-review.html
    Last edited by Gareth83; 11-04-2009 at 08:24 AM.
    Quote Quote
    When you eat the foods your body is made for (Paleo foods) in a framework that your body is made for (feast-fast, such as IF), it all works beautifully.
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  10.  
    #10
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    Quote Quote
    Originally Posted by Gareth83 View Post
    I wouldn't touch decaf personally.
    Why is that, Gareth?

    That review was quite balanced, I thought, and I essentially agree with it.

    Even the individual studies I quickly reviewed, before posting the John Berardi piece (which seemed to summarise most of the salient points), indicated that the negative effects were only really apparent when consuming carbs (low GI or high GI doesn't really make that much difference).

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