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  1. Default What is the minimum dose of protein to build muscle?

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    The question is often asked and the answer I give is always 'surprisingly little'! Here is a study that backs that up - in highly trained resistance athletes.

    Quote Quote
    by Jeff S. Volek, Ph.D., R.D., F.A.C.N.
    Protein supplements are a staple in many athletes’ diet program. Up until now there has been practically no information available on how much protein to consume in a single dose after a workout. Some previous research has shown very good results with a small amount of protein as low as 6g. However, the possibility remains open that a higher dose would have produced even better results in those studies.



    Researchers decided to finally test that idea. They had highly trained resistance athletes perform a bout of resistance exercise on five separate occasions. In order to test the effects of a protein dose, they had the athletes consume one of 5 different doses of egg protein after exercise. The drinks contained no protein (control) or 5g, 10g, 20g and 40g of protein. Specific measures of muscle protein synthesis were then determined for the next 4 hours.



    The control group (no protein) increased protein synthesis, indicating that exercise alone has a positive effect on muscle protein synthesis. There was a further increase after the 5g dose of protein and yet a further increase after the 10g protein dose. When the dose was bumped to 20g, there was almost a doubling of muscle protein synthesis. When the highest dose of 40g of protein was consumed, there was very little further increase in protein synthesis, indicating the effect plateaus somewhere near 20g.



    These results indicate a dose-response relationship between the amount of protein ingested and stimulation of protein synthesis after resistance exercise up to about 20g of dietary protein. Consuming more than 20g per serving results in a marked increase in burning of protein as fuel instead of as a source of protein synthesis.


    The take home message: a minimum of 20g of high quality protein providing 9g of essential amino acids is the ideal amount of protein to consume after resistance exercise to maximize protein synthesis.
    References:
    Moore DR, Robinson MJ, Fry JL, Tang JE, Glover EI, Wilkinson SB, Prior T, Tarnopolsky MA, Phillips SM. Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2008 Dec 3. [Epub ahead of print]

    Jeff Volek is currently an Assistant Professor in The Human Performance Laboratory at The University of Connecticut, Storrs, CT. He hold numerous degrees including a Masters and Ph.D. in Kinesiology (Pennsylvania State University). He serves on the Editorial Board of Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise and the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. He has published over 115 scientific articles and chapters.

    Disclaimer: All posts on these forums are for information and discussion purposes only and solely the views of the forum member who posted. No posts constitute or replace medical advice. Any information should be considered in regard to specific circumstances. All advice is followed at your own risk and should be followed up with your own research or doctors advice.

    NU_nutrition_TS is a Training and Diet Moderator.
  2.  
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    to maximise protein synthesis in short term though.

    If you consumed 60g or so or even 100g, the body would still utilise it
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    When you eat the foods your body is made for (Paleo foods) in a framework that your body is made for (feast-fast, such as IF), it all works beautifully.
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    Dr Scott Connelly constructed his own test's and deduced that 25g was sufficient within 30 minutes of training. He observed that after this time frame and dosage, results offered diminishing returns.
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    I'm interested in:

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    They had highly trained resistance athletes perform a bout of resistance exercise on five separate occasions.
    Let me guess, one set of arm curls or leg extensions?

    If one did a total body session I guess more protein would be better.

    It still comes down to total daily intake as opposed to just PWO. Most research for total daily intake seems to be around 2-3g per kg LBM
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    When you eat the foods your body is made for (Paleo foods) in a framework that your body is made for (feast-fast, such as IF), it all works beautifully.
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    This was over four hours post-training.

    Obviously most people would consume further protein at intervals after that, either as whole food or more supplementation. The question was what is the minimum 'dose' required to maximise protein synthesis in any given period - and that is very little.

    You could certainly have 100g of protein throughout the day - 5 servings of 20g each every four hours and maximise protein synthesis over 20 hours!

    Lots more protein than this can and will be utilised but not necessarily for protein synthesis - many studies have shown that excess protein gets oxidised for energy - and if that energy is not immediately required it will be stored as fat!

    Incidentally, my original recommendation was based on a much earlier study I had read that looked at the amount of amino acids required to optimise muscle protein synthesis and again it was surprisingly little - probably about the same as quoted in the above article (~9-10g) - trying to supply more did not increase PS rates any further.

    Another study looked at protein synthesis PWO with and without any supplementation - muscle protein synthesis was still elevated PWO, even in people who did not consume a protein supplement immediately after. One assumes the amino acids readily available in the 'amino acid pool' was more than enough to allow MPS to begin - though the extra 9g via supplementation (or food) obviously optimises it.
    Last edited by NU_nutrition_TS; 17-05-2009 at 10:12 PM.

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    Quote Quote
    Originally Posted by Gareth83 View Post
    I'm interested in:



    Let me guess, one set of arm curls or leg extensions?

    If one did a total body session I guess more protein would be better.

    It still comes down to total daily intake as opposed to just PWO. Most research for total daily intake seems to be around 2-3g per kg LBM
    Unfortunately, it doesn't specify. But as these were highly trained athletes, one assumes a single set of an isolation movement would be somewhat beneath them!

    EDIT: I've tracked down the abstract for the study - it only says:
    Quote Quote
    Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise.
    The results and conclusions from the study abstract go on to say:
    Quote Quote
    Results: MPS displayed a dose response to dietary protein ingestion and was maximally stimulated at 20 g. The phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (Thr389), ribosomal protein S6 (Ser240/244), and the {varepsilon}-subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B (Ser539) were unaffected by protein ingestion. APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20 g ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40 g protein were ingested.

    Conclusions: Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.
    Which again backs up the observations I made in my last post!
    Last edited by NU_nutrition_TS; 17-05-2009 at 10:21 PM.

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    NU_nutrition_TS is a Training and Diet Moderator.
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    Yeah this is why I don't see the need for some of these guys necking 60g of whey at a time, it's not optimal or needed. One thing to consider is the types of protein, there's just no way our bodies can utilize 60g of a fast digesting protein like whey in one hit?

    Wonder what a study using casein would show up??
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    why do some trainers recommend big protein consumption?

    Dante says 500 grams, and ironaddict says at least 1.5grams per pound of bodyweight -- these guys train loads of people, so there must be somthing in the 'more is better' approach?

    What happens to excess protein in the body? Does it get excreted through urination?
    Last edited by madmutant; 18-05-2009 at 11:25 AM. Reason: language
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    Quote Quote
    Originally Posted by NU_nutrition_TS View Post
    This was over four hours post-training.

    Obviously most people would consume further protein at intervals after that, either as whole food or more supplementation. The question was what is the minimum 'dose' required to maximise protein synthesis in any given period - and that is very little.

    You could certainly have 100g of protein throughout the day - 5 servings of 20g each every four hours and maximise protein synthesis over 20 hours!

    Lots more protein than this can and will be utilised but not necessarily for protein synthesis - many studies have shown that excess protein get oxidised for energy - and if that energy is not immediately required it will be stored as fat!
    5 servings of 20g every 4hrs wouldn't necessarily maximise PS though. I bet it would be the same as 2 servings of 50g.

    If the energy is not immediately required it may well get converted to fat. But if there is no dietary protein PWO then it will come from the amino acid pool which will be topped back up as and when dietary protein is made available.

    Even if excess protein were stored as fat this fat would then be used for energy when fuel wasn't available. Over a 24hr cycle voila, same isocaloric, isomacro diet = same net results.

    Too many studies are done on PWO or specifically timed events. I prefer to read up on long term results such as 24hrs - 8 weeks or longer
    Quote Quote
    When you eat the foods your body is made for (Paleo foods) in a framework that your body is made for (feast-fast, such as IF), it all works beautifully.
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    Quote Quote
    Originally Posted by Gareth83 View Post
    Too many studies are done on PWO or specifically timed events. I prefer to read up on long term results such as 24hrs - 8 weeks or longer
    Good point, isn't protein synthesis at it's highest 36 hours after a hard training session??
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