High carbs or low carbs?

[Wotan]

This is the thread for discussing your dietary carb intake. Please do not hijack other threads. Any posts in any thread threatening to go down the pro/anti carb line will be deleted forthwith.

An alternative thread containing a more advanced discussion can be found here:-

How carbs and insulin make you fat and/or ill!

[khris]

Both have their place, I think that low/keto approches are a short term solution but by no means a long term problem solver as far as "getting big" go's I really do think one needs their carbs to function optimally i.e building consistent muscle. In terms of fat loss I think low carb solutions and or keto is the way to go yet again its a short term solution you cant "cut" forever.

[MJ.23]

High carbs all the way! Never dropping them.

[Supadude]

Very Low Carb Ketogenic Diet - with a big bolus of carb/s every 4-7 day, best of both worlds for health/wellness and maintaining training intensity ^_^

[Gareth83]

My simplified brief summary (again) on the whole issue of carbs.

1. You can live without carbs period, you cannot live without protein or fats
2. Carbs are not required for growth, growth is a factor of strength training and sufficient protein intake
3. Carbs can replenish glycogen although protein can also do this through gluconeogenesis
4. PWO carbs aren't necessary as glycogen will replenish within the next 24-72hrs PWO anyway regardless whether low, medium or high carb
5. We didn't evolve to eat grains, although measures can be taken such as sprouting
6. Carb studies done on 'athletes' such as cyclists do not carry over to a gym rat who trains 3-5 times a week
7. Carbs during training do not always equal increased performance. Drop that glucose drink as you're doing 60mins of weight training not marathon running
8. Carbs do not blunt cortisol, in fact they do the opposite in the longer term

These are just a few of my points, however as stated in several posts before I am no carbophobe. I am not afraid of carbs, I eat carbs, and I actually advise eating carbs.

Google or forum search 'Glyconutrients' or go and purchase a book such as 'Sugars That Heal' on the benefits.

Processed carbs are the devil in my opinion, not because they are 'bad' per se at face value but because they displace from our diet what we should be eating such as meat, fish, eggs, fruit, nuts, veg which are full of both macro and micronutrients.

Vitamins and minerals within carb sources are actually less bioavailable than those found within meat, fish and eggs.

Low carb does not have to mean low calorie!!

The numerous people I have seen on this forum who claim lack of energy on a lower carb diet when they post up their diet it was usually the following observations:

1. Calories were not substantial enough to meet basic energy requirements
2. Protein was not enough
3. Fats were usually overlooked, for me olive oil and avocado does not cut the mustard as a sole fat source. Think fattier cuts of meat, eggs, nuts, dairy etc.
4. Omega 6 - Omega 3 ratios were often way out of the 1:1 - 4:1 ratio required.

* Most importantly people don't give their body a chance to adapt to the change which can often be >8 weeks*

That'll do for me I think ;-)

[Tauren]

Martin Berkhan on the subject of carbs:

Quote

Glycogen depletion lowers metabolic rate via decreased noradrenaline output and is only restored to basal levels with a high carb meal. I rarely employ glycogen depletion in my training protocols, but a few of you do. I am convinced that there are a few Crossfitters, PX90-adherents and kettlebell-enthusiasts reading this that deplete a fair amount of glycogen in their workouts while following a low carb diet. Low carbing is fine. But going too low on carbs on training-days is a suboptimal strategy. Have some carbs with your post-workout meal and save the low-carbing for other meals. Your metabolism and performance will be much better off.

This needs to be taken in the context of the Leangains approach, but it makes a lot of sense to me personally.

I should point out that for whatever my personal experience is worth, I often drop carbs below 150g on non-WO days, so its not like I am madly in favour of carbs. I just think they do have a place in training.

My main problem is when people start massively exaggerating the health benefits of low-carb and massively exaggerating the health problems of certain carb sources (and seriously bending the science of human physiology in the process). The link above thats marked as "advanced discussion" has plenty of examples of this.

There is definitely a time and a place for low-carbing, but people need to realise its not the answer to all the world's problems. When you make out that it is then you just start sounding like a cult.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

Generally I still eat a diet containing minimal carbohydrate - but I have a packet of glucose powder left over in the cupboard from when I did my home oral glucose tolerance test - so I have been experimenting by putting 2-3 tsp in a cream and egg shake. I did a fasting glucose test and got a reading of 5.1 mmol/l then 15 minutes after drinking the shake I took another reading and got a result of 5.8 mmol/l. Technically 2-3 tsp of glucose should triple or quadruple normal serum glucose levels (though it should never read that high on the meter - 7.6 mmol/l is usually the healthy maximum), so I am assuming the fat did slow down the release of the glucose. However, some time later I did get the old familiar energy slump and fell asleep mid-afternoon. It was quite an unpleasant sleepiness as well and when I finally managed to force myself awake I felt as sick as a pig! I haven't really experienced this since giving up carbs. However, I will probably finish up the packet little by little in this way just to see if a definite pattern emerges.

Edit: Just did a repeat of the above experiment. My starting BG (not fasted because I ate a meal earlier this evening) was 5.1 mmol/l (obviously my body has become pretty proficient at keeping me at this level fasted or not!) and 15 minutes after having a shake with some glucose in it it went up to 5.4 mmol/l. Unless I suddenly slump into unconsciousness, I will take another reading in about 45 mins and see if it goes up further, stays the same, comes back down or even slumps to hypoglycaemic levels!

Well, I didn't get the hypoglycaemic slump and fall asleep and my BG at an hour later was still 5.4 mmol/l.

Another update: I wanted to see what would be the effect of combining glucose with unsaturated fats so I bought a tub of vegetable margarine (yeuch!) and mixed similar amounts of it and glucose as above (with a little natural vanilla essence to make it like a typical faux buttercreme filling). Fasting BG was 5.4 mmol/l. 15 minutes after eating the concoction, it was still 5.4 mmol/l. An hour later it was still 5.4mmol/l. 2 hours later it had gone up to 5.9 mmol/l! Unfortunately I didn't do a 2 hour reading on the earlier experiment, so I may do this again at some point and see if there is a similar late increase.

[jtwigg]

According to my diet plan thingy on nutritiondata.com, I only eat 120g carbs a day. However, I seem to often accidentally drop ice-cream etc by the tub-full down my throat every so often, so this is probably misleading lol!

[Gareth83]

lol, jtwigg where do you train?

[TRC]

I wouldn't say I eat low carb, it's sub 150g during the week and a little less strict at weekends.