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    #81
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    Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    So, now you understand the differences between a deer psyche and a modern human psyche, can we move on?
    That's not what I was getting at and you know it! There seems to be a great deal of cognitive dissonance on display in some of the people posting to this thread: even the very examples they quote from everyday life - personal or observation of others around them - seems to indicate a predilection for breads (sandwiches & baguettes), pasta, potatoes (including processed into crisps & other snacks), cereals, pastries, cakes, biscuits, sweets, dips, etc. and yet still insist it has nothing to do with carbs and how they negatively effect the mechanisms that would normally and unconsciously control eating habits to prevent runaway weight gain and obesity - as it does in wild animals.
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    #82
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    Yes, but we are not a society of wild animals. Our mentality has changed as we have become 'civilised'. I agree that too many carby fat, junk foods are the ones that make people fat. Not all carbs should be demonised under the same umbrella however. As with everything, there is a scale of good to bad.

    I don't know anyone who gat fat from eating too much fruit or porridge for example.
    Last edited by Fred; 10-09-2010 at 11:46 AM.
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    #83
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    Oh the irony! There seems to be a fair bit of confirmation bias going on here from yourself Nu, as well as the use of a false dichotomy fallacy.

    And comparing a Human to a deer is a completely fallacious argument, we aren't even physiologically similar - Deer's being herbivours for a start! So what relevance your example has in regard to satiety and energy intake is beyond me!
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    #84
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    Originally Posted by NU_nutrition_TS View Post
    I am somewhat surprised and dumbfounded by your position considering our brief exchange on this thread: Intense Sugar Rush, Post Nap

    If anyone should appreciate how pernicious carby foods (even bread) can be it should be you!
    Fair comment - If I could have I'd have done a PM but as I can't I'll answer here ...

    Sometimes the only 'immediate' cure for real low sugar levels is a sugar hit and I realised that there was an 'immediate' need at the time - It was followed by some protein (in the form of whey) to minimise the re-occurence of a sugar low - Interestingly it worked quite well and I trained really well last night

    What's annoying is I don't know what kicked off the cycle in the first place - It hasn't happened for ages and I'm fine today! My diet's ben pretty constant for ages. The only thing I can think is that my training intensity is up slightly + I've been losing a bit of weight (albeit very very slowly) and had a touch of a cold/bug earlier in the week - So the combination meant my blood sugar just plummeted - Whetehr it was due to my having used up all my sugar or whetehr for some reason my insulin went mad and used it all up (layman's speak lol) I just donlt have a clue. As I say I can tell straight away that I'm ok today so the cycle's been broken, just wish I knew why
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    #85
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    Go and find some deer in the forest, observe their ways, and all shall become clear.
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    #86
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    Does this type of argument sound familiar to anyone?

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    In my review of chapter 14 of Good Calories, Bad Calories, I pointed out how the author relied heavily on old scientific data to support his thesis, despite the fact that more well-designed and more recent studies refuted his thesis. Another example of confirmation bias is in a debate I had with an individual regarding carbohydrate. This individual strongly believed that a diet high in carbohydrate would result in fat gain and obesity. I pointed out that the traditional Okinawans consumed a high carbohydrate diet and did not have high obesity rates. This individual then claimed it was a low-carbohydrate diet because it was a low-calorie diet. I then showed how the carbohydrate intake was an average of 379 grams per day. He then shifted the goalposts and said the carbohydrates were mostly fibrous and indigestible. I then pointed out that this wasn’t true and that the staple food was the sweet potato. He then shifted the goalposts again and said the data was from 1949. By this time, I was tired of debating him, but the fact is that it was based off of 6 decades worth of data. This individual continued to shift the goalposts and come up with new ad hoc rationalizations as to why the Okinawan diet didn’t really refute his preconceived belief regarding carbohydrate.
    Thinking Better Part 2: Confirmation Bias.
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    #87
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    Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    Go and find some deer in the forest, observe their ways, and all shall become clear.
    Very Deep
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    Originally Posted by ATZ View Post
    Oh the irony! There seems to be a fair bit of confirmation bias going on here from yourself Nu, as well as the use of a false dichotomy fallacy.

    And comparing a Human to a deer is a completely fallacious argument, we aren't even physiologically similar - Deer's being herbivours for a start! So what relevance your example has in regard to satiety and energy intake is beyond me!
    I could have picked any wild animal of any species and from carnivore to herbivore and everything in between - the point is, in times of plenty or not, over the long-term they manage to eat just enough to maintain health/normal body composition without the ability to count calories or otherwise mentally govern their food intake. They may starve and die during times of famine but they rarely, if ever, become obese when food is plentiful! The point being why can dumb animals do it and intelligent humans can't unless they count calories?

    The point I am making is that people are claiming fat people just eat too much and don't get up off their backsides enough without explaining how and why this occurs. I need to know, from someone who claims to have been fat out of sheer nutritional ignorance or gluttony, how they managed to eat so much food (3 meals a day despite just one of those meals containing their full day's worth of calories) and not throw it all back up!

    All I want to know is - if you were eating to such an excess as is being described were you conscious of eating when you were not truly hungry or were your meals not filling you up satisfactorily? An additional question would be what were the predominant foods in the diet when such overeating was occurring?

    Everyone seems to be skirting the issue and avoiding giving a clear, concise answer to all those questions in one simple post!
    Last edited by NU_nutrition_TS; 10-09-2010 at 12:04 PM.
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    #89
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    Originally Posted by NU_nutrition_TS View Post
    The point I am making is that people are claiming fat people just eat too much and don't get up off their backsides enough without explaining how and why this occurs. I need to know, from someone who claims to have been fat out of sheer nutritional ignorance or gluttony, how they managed to eat so much food (3 meals a day despite just one of those meals containing their full day's worth of calories) and not throw it all back up!

    All I want to know is - if you were eating to such an excess as is being described were you conscious of eating when you were not truly hungry or were your meals not filling you up satisfactorily?
    That is a very good question and one that's always puzzled me as I simply can't eat too much - I've tried & failed - there's obviously some different psyche involved but it's alien to me so I don't 'understand'
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    #90
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    An interesting aside which shows that animals get fat if they eat unhealthily - So in this instance the orang Utan ate crap and got fat - Interesting and take from that what you will

    Oshine the overweight orang-utan put on healthy diet | Metro.co.uk
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