Macros

[nicke]

Hi,

My current goals are lean gains and recomp.

Overall I aim to be in a slight deficit for the week theoretically resulting in approx 1lb of fat loss. I step calories to align to training days. I train Mon / Wed / Sat so intake is:

Training Day = 3200
Rest = 2000

I generally IF, eating window is 13:00 to 21:00.

On rest days I keep carb to <100g.

How could the macros on training days affect things? Or what would the desireable macro split be on training days? Or doesn't it really matter (assuming protein high enough).

I understand than 150-200g of carb will be sufficient to replenish glycogen, etc. So if we assume 250g of Protein this totals 1800kcal accounted for. Where is the other 1400 best to come from? The full amount from fat (e.g. 150g) or given my goals are recomp would I be better keeping fat low on training days hence pushing carbs higher?

I generally subscribe to the overall calories matter most camp but then still hear bodybuilders swear by keeping fats low, etc to force the body to use its stores ,etc.

Is intake v outtake the principal driver? People swear on IF that they get leaner on the same kcals so the assumption therefore is that in-day intake/macros and timing do matter.


Thanks
Nick

[James]

It doesn't really matter where the extra calories come from, however, I would personally get them from fats:-

1. Easier to eat calorie wise over carbs/protein
2. Healthier option to carbs in regards to excess insulin etc etc
3. Allows wider choice of foods
4. Tastier!

What is your maint level? I take it you are in excess on training days and below rest days? Looks good.

[nicke]

Thanks James,

This would give a split of p 32%, c 25%, f 43%

Will my body appropriately use all this fat on training day as fuel or could it lead to it being stored?

Would pushing carb higher and keeping fat low result in a better overall composition (given my fat is high on non-training days)?

I thought if carb was high but fat low then it's unlikely that the carb will be stored as fat - hence wondered if this isn't a preferred approach on training days.

Nick

[James]

Total calories taken in are going to be the main governing body of fat gain or not, the way I work out my totals is to take my desired weekly calorie intake then divide it up over the 7 days of the week, keeping a 500 calorie excess on workout days, which then works out as my rest days at maint or slightly below - for me, this works out as a lean gains program, but the same protocol can be used for fat loss - like you have done.

The issue with higher carb intakes are the excess of insulin in the blood steam which can then store extra calories from fat as bodyfat (as well as the health issues with excess insulin), if you provide your body with the required carb intake for the given day (safe ranges would be 120g rest days to 170g or so on workout days - these totals allow the body to be fully glycogen adapted without any extra), then making up the rest of the calories from fat is no issue whatsoever, and is in fact, healthier.

I wouldn't worry about percentage ratios, just make sure you are getting your minimal required protein and carbs (if you want to stay glycogen adapted).

[nicke]

Fantastic thanks James.

You've provided the reassurance I was looking for!! After being low carb for almost 3 years I got very accustomed to a particular way of eating so any migration away from this is probably causing me to over-think or over-analyse things)

[James]

No worries.

I have had plenty of experiences both very high carb and VERY high fat, I am now sitting in the middle. At the end of the day, calories and protein intake will govern gains, where the other calories come from make no difference, that is, unless you want to promote optimal health - which is what exercise is all about. I get all my carbs from as natural sources as possible - fruit, veg and a little honey - no grains, rice etc (apart from odd cheat meal occasions) and all my protein and fats from animal sources - eggs and beef.

[ATZ]

James, I'm pretty sure the idea behind using carbs as the caloric excess on training days is that they are more likely to be stored as glycogen, helping with recovery and muscle growth, and limiting fat gain.

The problem you have is in a caloric excess with carbs present then you have blunted oxidation of fat, so incoming fat is more likely to be directly stored as bodyfat. I'd be wary of getting my caloric excess from fat for this reason, even though I know some of the energy will be used for creation of new tissue. Remember, intramuscular triglyceride (IMTG) is a very limited store, so whatever excess fat is not stored or used to fuel growth, will be stored as bodyfat.

Obviously this is sematics, as overall caloric intake is going to be the main determinor of fat / muscle gain, but I know the above is the reason Martin favours carbs are they are less "likely" to be stored as fat and moreso as LBM (glycogen counting towards this total)

[James]

Agree dude, however, as long as you are intelligent (as you state) it won't be an issue, I'd rather have the calories from fat than carbs for health anyhow, although I agree with getting enough carbs to completely refill glycogen on a daily basis. A good mix of everything is the best way

[ATZ]

Where's this shift in "calories from fat than carbs for health" come from out of interest? Who's to say in a normal, healthy training individual getting excess calories from carbs is any less "healthy" than getting them from fat?

[MJ.23]

Quote

Where's this shift in "calories from fat than carbs for health" come from out of interest? Who's to say in a normal, healthy training individual getting excess calories from carbs is any less "healthy" than getting them from fat?

I think James is talking from his own experience here as im pretty sure hes mentioned before, noticeable health changes when consuming a high level of carbs as opposed to fats.