Eat to gain muscle

[daveg723]

Just wondering, why do you need to eat loads to build muscle?

Will lifting heavy and eating 1.5 x protein per BW not do the job?

I have a few unwanted pounds around my lower back, but still want to gain muscle (Build muscle)
I life heavy and eat -500 cals from my maintaining calorie intake.

Thoughts please?

[Asauka]

Not the best person for answering these kind of questions but I'll give it a shot:

You need to eat to get enough energy to repair the muscles, protein does not work alone in this process. This is why many people say that it's near impossible to make efficient gains while cutting bodyfat, as you need that extra intake to give your body sufficient energy to repair the muscles and make you all big and strong (which unfortunately can come with some fat).

So you build muscle/strength or cut really, without a complex diet that is.

[daveg723]

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Not the best person for answering these kind of questions but I'll give it a shot:

You need to eat to get enough energy to repair the muscles, protein does not work alone in this process. This is why many people say that it's near impossible to make efficient gains while cutting bodyfat, as you need that extra intake to give your body sufficient energy to repair the muscles and make you all big and strong (which unfortunately can come with some fat).

So you build muscle/strength or cut really, without a complex diet that is.

Thanks, I have been reading about David Kimmerle, who lost fat and now has the kind of body that I would like to have...so just wondered if eating more or less would help..

[MJ.23]

The human body does not want to be muscular. This is why its a long process to gain muscle in the first place. The human body wants to be an average joe with a decent amount of fat. Hence why if you stopped training you would revert back to this stage.

Weight gain/loss is controlled by calories. Calories are burnt for energy. It doesnt matter where they come from (i.e fat or carbs) your body will use them to fuel physical activity. Now the issue arises when you do a lot of weight training and dont fuel your body. Your body will need to look elsewhere. The body will prioritise fat over the muscle you have; so it will begin to break down the muscle you have to fuel your exercise. Muscle requires a lot more energy to "run" than fat so the body sees it as a nuisance.

This is why in a bulking phase you overconsume on food to stop your body from trying to break down the muscle you already have for fuel.

On a cut you do underconsume slightly on food and its important that you up the protein intake whilst doing so. This will greatly reduce the muscle loss you will experience. However you will usually see a drop in performance and you will feel weaker as the body will most likely attack the muscle at some point.

[daveg723]

That makes sence Mj, Thanks

So, if I have this right....

If I take in like 2xBW in protein then I 'should' gain muscle, if I dont over do it on cardio and get my rest days in? without having to 'bulk' too much..

[MJ.23]

Well; as caloric intake goes up, protein requirements go down so eating 2g/Ib bodyweight is not necessary.

Its a common mistake for people to want to over consume on protein to gain mass and believe they wont gain fat. The fact is its not metabolically efficient. Not to mention the fact that trying to get your daily calories mostly from protein is extremely difficult be it impossible. Calories from protein aren’t used as efficiently for energy as calories from carbohydrates or fats.

Studies have shown that, once protein requirements have been met, you will gain more muscle by adding dietary energy (from fats of carbs) than adding in more protein.

I would say rather than worry about the amount of protein you intake; worry about the quality of protein you intake.

Protein is important for gaining muscle however the value you will most likely be looking for is in the 0.8-1.5g/Ib bodyweight category. Of course this varies but its a good starting point. Imo 2g/Ib bodyweight isnt necessary.

[ATZ]

MJ, some of your points ring true, some don't.

To the OP, you can't gain appreciable muscle in an energy defecit (diet) unfortuantely. The extra energy needs of the body have to come from somewhere, and normally this is from fat stores as they contain A LOT of stored energy. So if you're consuming less energy than your body needs, the shortfall comes from the fat stores. Whether the fat stores contain enough energy to keep the body going, and have enought left over to then build muscle tissue is debateable.

So, in most dieting situations you shouldn't lose muscle if you are resistance training and are consuming adequate protein, the training gives the body the excuse it needs to hold onto the muscle tissue, even if it's metabolically expensive as MJ23 has pointed out, and protein is muscle sparing too.

Losing fat and building muscle at the same time is the "holy grail" of training. Some people expereince a "recomp" effect, where they lose a lot of fat and gain some muscle, but this is normally in beginners who aren't used to resistance training and who's diet was poor in the first place, or people returning from a layoff. For most people this is difficult outside of complex diet set ups, or the use of drugs, which obviously changes the game massively.

If you want to look more muscular, get lean first IMO. THe old saying lose 10lb to look 10lb heavier rings true, if you have any appreciable muscle mass getting leaner first will help you acheive the look you want, it's also "better" to bulk up from an already lean state for various reasons I can't be bothered to go into.

[khris]

You dont need to eat loads to grow, furthermore you dont need "need" to eat in surplus to grow. Its what you eat and when you eat it, well thats my view on it as most of my gains over the last 2 years have come when Im eating at deficit and maintence. Only recently have I started to eat over maintence, the results of which are good but wont be fully seen until Im finished and il be able to conclude further the impact of eating over maintence.

[ATZ]

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You dont need to eat loads to grow,

True. Some need as little as 250kcal extra. The trouble comes in ensuring that surplus is consistent, Total Daily energy expenditure (TDEE) is never linear as people never do the same thing day in, day out. Hence why most people recommend +500kcal to cover this variance.

One way of ensuring most of you gains go towards muscle and not fat is calorie cycling.

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furthermore you dont need "need" to eat in surplus to grow.

You can't create new tissue without energy. It has to come from somewhere. You won't gain appreciable mass on a diet, but you might scew the amount of fat : muscle in a favourable manner though.

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Its what you eat and when you eat it, well thats my view on it as most of my gains over the last 2 years have come when Im eating at deficit and maintence.

Ensuring you hit your total daily intake is WAAAY more inportant than when you eat it. Although I'd conceed that eating something pre and post WO is important.

[khris]

appreciable is a lose term imo, but I get what you mean, this to me is something which is evidently seen rather than minute.