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Thread: Is the insulin spike created by Whey Protein detrimental to Ketosis?

  1. Default Is the insulin spike created by Whey Protein detrimental to Ketosis?

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    This might be a silly question....I'm not sure.

    But the PT I saw said I'd be find having a PWO protein shake because even though it creates an insulin spike it will be fine because there are no carbs presents.

    Now I'm pretty confidente he knows far more than me about generally speaking, however my understanding of Ketosis and LCHF is that it's not the "carbs" that are intrinsically bad (forgetting about grains and anti-nuts for a second). But it's the insulin spike they create which means the body will use that fuel instantly and also stop fat burning and promote storage.

    So....Since I am on a keto style diet would a PWO protein shake be detrimental to this?
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    Targeted Keto uses a PWO insulin spike to promote uptake for muscle growth. If you want to stay in ketosis then you can't elevate your insulin levels.
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    Eating anything other than fat is going to halt it somewhat I thought? try a week on and a week off, see for yourself what the actual affect is? It might stop fat burning, but if the amount is tiny but recovery improves then that is a worthwhile compromise to me.
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    I imagine I"ll leave it till I'm fat adapted, then maybe introduce it.

    Might do a couple of weeks without and do a stat check, then do a couple of weeks with and do another one. Then assess that against, strength, fat loss and perceived recovery.

    The weeks I do without I'm considering having a PWO of BCAA and Creatine mono. Only reason to use creatine is because it's been sat in my cupboard for a while.
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    Dr Peter Attia is currently the 'go to' expert on the subject of nutritional ketosis (not least because he likes to remain in such a state!).

    Any way, as he explains it, the effect of insulin on nutritional ketosis is the key factor in the difference between nutritional ketosis and diabetic ketoacidosis (which mainstream medicos always seem to think are the same thing!).

    Apparently, in a healthy, non-diabetic person, when ketones reach a certain level in the blood an insulin response is induced and this shuts down ketosis. It is a feedback loop that ensures a healthy person never goes from ketosis into ketoacidosis.

    Because type I diabetics cannot produce insulin they will continue to produce ketones, which build up to toxic levels (making the blood too acid - hence 'ketoacidosis').

    So, based on all of that, a sufficiently high insulin response will shut down nutritional ketosis and some dietary proteins, at a certain level, may indeed create a big enough insulin response. This is why medically prescribed ketogenic diets (e.g., for epilepsy) use a very precise formula where both carbohydrates and proteins are strictly limited/controlled.

    You can read his blog post here (make sure to read the comments/questions and his responses):
    Is ketosis dangerous? The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.
    Last edited by NU_nutrition_TS; 11-01-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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    Also found this Whey Protein good or bad for Ketosis ?

    If I'm right NU, are you basically saying as long as I"m within my protein allowance for the day a shake won't throw me out of ketosis?
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    Whey protein isolate has trace carbs in it, so is the only one I would recommend for a keto style fat loss program. If you're trying to add muscle with keto, then yes have carbs before and after resistance training to cause the insulin levels to spike...
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    Though in each 25g if impact whey there is less than 2g of carbs, so for each 100g there is less than 8 grams. I could be wrong but something is considered "low carb" if it has less than 5g carb per 100g.

    So even with impact whey i could remain below 50g carbs per day.
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    its not the carbs doing ALL the insulin spiking...whey is incredibly insulinogenic...
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    Quote Quote
    Originally Posted by Molem7b5 View Post
    Also found this Whey Protein good or bad for Ketosis ?

    If I'm right NU, are you basically saying as long as I"m within my protein allowance for the day a shake won't throw me out of ketosis?
    We are always in and out of ketosis (or varying degrees of it) all day and night long - I think James, at this point, would say you are trying to micro-manage it!

    A large amount of a particular protein may produce a big and immediate enough insulin response to knock you out of ketosis but, if you haven't given the body a 'reason' not to go back into ketosis, you probably would once the insulin level had waned. It is not about being in ketosis very second of every day but rather being at an optimal level of fat utilisation for energy production needs. In many cases, this may go hand in hand with varying degrees of dietary ketosis.

    It is really only the non-medicated epileptic who needs to micro-manage their diet and remain as nutritionally ketotic for as long as they can. For instance, the classic formula for a ketogenic diet prescription to treat epilepsy was 4:1:1 (fat : protein : carbs)!

    You might find this interesting:
    Joseph Arcita: A Guide to Ketosis
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