Harsh Penalties introduced in Japan for being Overweight

[hailtotheking]

I could have posted this under the Videos thread, but i think its worthy of specific discussion here.

Personally, I think overall this is a great idea, inc. the company activities, stair walking, pedometer, etc. Telling people to improve their health is not enough – stronger and harsher incentives are needed. The fact is we dont have the incentives (i.e survival!) that our ancestors had to stay active and healthy - in fact, psychologically we are wired to be slothful to restrict unnecessary energy expenditure. Combined with the fact that high calorie food / drink which appeals to our senses is available everywhere with little effort or cost, and there is a serious threat to health. A more modern incentive is needed to show some self control, like financial penalty.

I think measuring body fat would be better than waist size. If you do a manual job or sport which develops a thick, strong core, you could be unfairly penalized.

I was reading today that Japanese men are about 15kg lighter than their Western counterparts!

[stronglikewood]

What do you think a reasonable waist cut off in this country would be? 36"? I think a persons height should play part in the measurement. I can hardly say I'd be against something like this over here.

[hailtotheking]

I'm not sure what a healthy waist size would be, but another more effective alternative measurement could be the WHO Waist - Hip Ratio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waist%E2%80%93hip_ratio (WARNING: Gratuitous and frankly unnecessary shot of a blokes a*se)

Generally people that have strong core musculature also have well developed hips due to the integrated movement function of the core and hip girdle in most normal movements

[Barrington]

They could never and should never bring this in over here, you can't bully people into losing weight (you could but its not right). People need to be encouraged to lose weight for themselves not because the government tells them too. I go to the gym and exercise because i want to, not because i am told to, in fact if i was told/ordered to i would probably fight against it.

[hailtotheking]

Quote

They could never and should never bring this in over here, you can't bully people into losing weight (you could but its not right). People need to be encouraged to lose weight for themselves not because the government tells them too. I go to the gym and exercise because i want to, not because i am told to, in fact if i was told/ordered to i would probably fight against it.

Its not bullying - when you end up with a majority population of overweight people (like we are fast heading in the UK and the US) it costs health systems all over the world a shed load of money, and all taxpayers end up paying increased health bills for it.

You may have the willpower and enjoyment to go to the gym, but i have worked with alot of overweight clients and the attitude, i'm afraid to say, is 'why bother, this is too much like hard work'. Sure, once they get into it the majority of it love the results and how good it makes them feel, but the resistance to even make an initial sustained effort it simply not there in a lot of people.

As i said previously, there is no real embedded psychological motivation in us to exercise - our brains still work like our ancestors, and its its counter intuitive to survival to waste energy.

Encouraging people to lose weight may work for some people, but for many they need the stick, not the carrot, to get them moving.

You only need to look at all the best-selling fad diets, routines, and pills over the last 100 years or so that promise miracle weight loss without effort to see the way most people's brains are wired on this matter.

[Barrington]

I'm sure that it is a pretty effective way of making people lose weight, but i don't think its right for this country. We are not a fascist state quite yet. Before measures like this are introduced maybe the government should look into subsidising healthy food and things like that, the cost of food keeps going up and up. No wonder people buy cheaper junk food and ready meals. I do agree that things need to be done to help people lose weight but i don't think its this. Instead of draconian ideas like this and fining people for being fat maybe they should reward/pay people instead, that way at least they are doing it because they want to. Many people myself included would react very badly to being ordered to lose weight, i think it would be counterproductive. Not to mention no sane government wishing to be reelected would bring this in.

[stronglikewood]

If there was a way people could be encouraged to make healthy choices, I'd be all for that. Failing that, I think giving them a boot up the backside is a good idea.

[hailtotheking]

Japan culture doesnt tolerate 'weakness' in any form very well, and obesity is considered a weakness.

Yes i agree it is a bit draconian. However, realistically you will not see the government take action against processed food producers. There is no direct causal evidence that something inherent in processed foods themselves cause obesity - it is the excessive consumption of calories that cause the problem. Some of the Big Food companies would sue the cr*p out of the governement if they tried to imply that their processed foods were specifically and directly causing the problem and tried to impose penalties on them.

Also, there are examples all over the web of people getting ripped and strong with fairly regular consumption of junk - e.g. Martin Berkhan and his epic cheescake sessions, and JC Deen with his Lucky Charms kiddies cereal, partying, beer and BBQ sessions. These guys do it by putting junk food in context of overall diet and activity.

The most realistic and fast-acting solution would be for people to take self control of what they eat and do. Just because cheap junk food is everywhere you look it doesnt mean you have to eat it. If you as a mature adult cant say no, then its no-one elses problem and you need to grow some kahunas and get some self-repsect.

*** Erasmus coined a term in his book some years ago ('passive responsibility' i think it was) about people being lazy and shoving the responsibility for their own health on to healthcare providers, and therefore the goverment. I think this is an excellent observation and a problem that is endemic.

[Duncan]

I really like the proposed method from the op. Look at the alternatives.

The 'fat tax' on foods that contain the macro nutrient fat would be far worse. First, it's disputable whether dietary fat has any impact on fat deposition and BF%. Second, it is both the means and the ends that are manipulated. Third, everyone is impacted and not just the obese. In contrast, placing a general financial incentive on people to lose weight allows individuals to determine what method on weight management they prefer and it is only those people who are overweight who are penalised.


It must be said though that I'd be an absolute tyrant if I was in charge and I'm dispassionately logical. For example, I don't believe there's any such thing as a housing shortage or an energy crisis- I firmly believe these things are merely symptomatic of overpopulation and the only solution is strictly enforced population control. May seem off-topic, but it's just an example of how I think 'civil liberties' will necessarily have to be sacrificed in support of a sustainable and fair society. The obesity epidemic is neither sustainable or fair and so a solution which may be seen as infringing upon civil liberties may be required. Ultimately, 'civil liberties' are just constructs, while resources are finite and consumption is open to regulation.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

My 'libertarian' leanings make me naturally opposed to any 'nannying' or coercive measures imposed by authority. What is even more aggravating is that people wouldn't be as out of shape as they are if they weren't following the authoritative recommendations for diet in the first place. Rather than admit they (authorities) were wrong, they blame the people who followed their previous wrong-headed advice. Typical!