Old Skool Supplement Duel: Cod Liver Oil vs Dessicated Liver Tablets

[hailtotheking]

I was considering stripping back my supplements, ditching the bog standard 'one size fits all' mutivit and the such, and switching to some digestive enzymes, a decent buffered vitamin C + bioflavonoids, and regular testing and supplementing with the mineral taste test range that RB and myself were discussing here http://forum.myprotein.co.uk/supplem...ion-right.html. To this, i'm looking to add a decent 'bioavailable' wholefood source of Retinol, vitamin D3, and poss. B-Vitamin complex (although i eat enough meat and offal to probably cover that).

I have been considering adding either a quality cod liver oil back to my regime, or some good quality dessicated liver tablets. I say EITHER because having both would probably OD on the retinol a bit.

I've been weighing up the pro's and cons of each, and heres what i came up with:

- The cod liver oil (CLO) is an excellent source of retinol, vitamin D3, and quality fats such as EFAs that include EPA and DHA;

- Dessicated liver tablets are also an excellent source of retinol and vitamin D3, but this time in a much better and safer ratio than CLO (i.e not an excessive amount of retinol compared to D3). It is also an excellent source of B vitamin Complex, RNA, DNA, and many minerals. A downside is you need to consume quite a few tablets to get good doses, and there is no EFA's.

At a glance, it looks like the dessicated liver tablets take it - maybe Vince Gironda was right! - although if i go with that i might add some krill or decent fish oil to cover the EFA's. Any thoughts?

[Ripped Barbarian]

What about eating liver or are you one to not appreciate it's taste (i don't like it much!) ?

Well, you'd get benefits from raw/dessicated actually.

There's still the 'undiscovered stammina boosting compound' in raw liver!

[hailtotheking]

I do eat liver - 200g NZ lamb liver per sitting - but not every day, as i like to rotate my foods. On the days i do eat liver i would just take a few of the tabs. On the days that i dont, i'd take more.

[hailtotheking]

I have found a good quality dessicated liver tablet supplier sourced from free-range, hormone-free, Argentinian beef. Interestingly, on the nutritional breakdown is does not list retinol or vitamin D3 ?!?

[Bison]

I believe liver tablets are quite high in iron content? Not a good thing. I think this is one reason why they aren't popular anymore.

[hailtotheking]

They are high in heme iron, which is very difficult to OD on, as your body regulates how much it chooses to uptake into the bloodstream. Non-heme iron however, found in synthetic iron supplements and certain vegetables can become toxic as it is much more difficult to auto-regulate its uptake.

[sendos]

Whats with the whole 'good source of RNA and DNA' thing? Surely all animal flesh is?

I've been thinking about vit A supplementation, I get hardly any retinol or retinol equivalents from my diet. Dessicated liver looks like a good choice.

[hailtotheking]

You are correct - animal meats are good source of RNA and DNA, but cod liver oil obviously doesnt fall into that category. Hence the reason why i stated it was an advantage of liver tabs over cod liver oil.

[NU_nutrition_TS]

My take on it is this: The more you can limit PUFA intake the better! I'm certainly reviewing my use of CLO for vitamin D3. However, one of the reasons the DL tablets you are speaking of appear not to contain Vitamin D (on the label) is because vitamin D is fat-soluble and if the product is de-fatted it won't have the naturally occurring fat-soluble vitamins still present (same thing with skimmed milk - synthetic vitamins A & D have to be added back).

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Desiccated Liver / Liver Extracts
What Is It?
Desiccated liver is a traditional health food supplement derived from animal liver, usually beef. It is produced by finely chopping (desiccating) fresh raw liver, followed by freeze drying to create a powder or tablets. Some products are de-fatted before drying. There are also liver supplements available that are in liquid form, known as hydrolysed liver extracts. These are produced by exposing raw liver material to enzymes that add water to protein bonds (hydrolysation), which causes it to liquefy. Liver extracts are much more concentrated and nearly always have the fat-soluble components removed.

Liver supplements were popular nutritional products for promoting general health and well-being, but are not widely used nowadays, due to vegetarianism and the development of alternative products.
Action
Desiccated liver is a very rich source of haem iron. This form is the most absorbable type of iron, and is very useful at supporting the production of red blood cells and for blood oxygenation. In addition, desiccated liver contains good levels of B-vitamins, including folic acid and vitamin B12, which are also needed for red blood cell building. Liver also supplies protein, amino acids, various minerals and some vitamin A and D, although de-fatted products contain no fat-soluble vitamins. Liver extracts typically contain 20 times the nutritional content of raw liver and 1 gram can yield 3-4 mg of haem iron. They contain no vitamin A or D because the fat fraction has been removed. Liver extracts are thought to help support liver function in the body.
Uses
As a supplement desiccated liver / liver extracts have been used for the following:

* Bodybuilding aid
* Boosting energy
* Building blood



* General tonic
* Heavy menstruation
* Hepatitis B (liquid extract)



* Iron deficiency anaemia
* Liver support
* Protein, iron & B-vitamin source for athletes

Other information
Desiccated liver is a supplement that was very popular with bodybuilders and athletes due to its good content of protein, amino acids, iron and B-vitamins. Dr B. H. Ershoff of the University of Southern California demonstrated anti-fatigue effects of liver, whilst other scientists believe that liver promotes stamina, strength and endurance. Desiccated liver is still sometimes available, either as tablets or a powder, which can be sprinkled on food or mixed in a nutrition shake. Since large amounts are usually needed and the taste and smell can be undesirable, modern athletes prefer to use protein supplements, multivitamins, iron tablets and B-complex formulas instead.

Many scientific investigations into the therapeutic efficacy of liver extracts on liver function demonstrate an ability to improve fat metabolism, prevent damage to the liver and promote tissue regeneration.
Cautions

* Liver supplements are generally free of side effects, although ordinary desiccated liver should be avoided during pregnancy due to the vitamin A content. On the other hand de-fatted desiccated liver and liquid liver extracts do not usually contain vitamin A and are considered an excellent form of absorbable iron to help reduce the risk of anaemia in pregnancy.
* The liver of any organism acts as a filter for waste materials and toxins and therefore many people are concerned that these may be found in liver supplements. Pregnant women may therefore avoid liver extracts for this reason, as they do not want to expose their baby to potentially harmful chemicals.
* Haem iron is much safer than other iron sources, hence iron overload is less likely with liver supplements when taken as directed, however people with iron storage disorders such as haemochromatosis, should avoid all rich sources of iron including desiccated liver, but especially liver extracts.
* When this article was written there were no other well-known side effects, drug interactions and contra-indications from using desiccated liver or liver extract supplements.

Source: Gaur Health Group

[Weaves]

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They are high in heme iron, which is very difficult to OD on, as your body regulates how much it chosses to uptake into the bloodstream. Non-heme iron however, found in synthetic iron supplements and certain vegetables can become toxic as it is much more difficult to auto-regulate its uptake.

If I cam correct in my thinking, if you have too much 'heme' iron you will see it in your stools? It turn's them black as it is oxidised doesn't it.