Training twice daily - How to supplement?

[Rich Andrews]

I need some help........I currently train twice daily, one cardio session in the morning for 50 mins at high intensity, then a weights session in late afternoon/early evening. One of the supplements I’m using is Creatine ethyl ester. My goal is to build lean muscle without adding any fat reserves. Im currently following the supplement directions on the packet which is 1-3g one hour before the weight training session, not the cardio in the morning.

What i want to know is am i using the Creatine to its full potential or am i doing what i fear which is depleting the reserves of Creatine in my muscles during cardio so that i don’t get the benefit during the weights session.

Should i be taking the Creating EE before cardio as well? Also, how much Creatine EE are people taking for optimal muscle without fat storage? (I weigh 13.5 stone, body fat of around 9.5%)

Thanks in advance
Rich A

[dope540]

unless you are competing, there's no need to train twice a day.

[Rich Andrews]

Lionhair - I have trained like this since Christmas. I was working abroad for a year and was not able to work out as often as i had liked so making up for lost time. I will be doing this for another 3 weeks then i have a week off planned to coincide with the end of the Creatine cycle. I normally work to 10 weeks on, 1 off.

[Rich Andrews]

dope540 - I don’t intend to train like this forever but have 3 months off from work and am intending to get in V.good shape before i go back. I am also training for a couple of half marathons so need to do cardio training. Have a lot of spare time on my hands so need to fill it with something worth while. Can you answer my question on the Creatine front?

[hailtotheking]

Despite having more time on your hands at the moment Rich, training that much wont necessarily give you the results you are after. When it comes to training more isnt always better. You will be ramping your cortisol levels through the roof, triggering stubborn fat retention round the gut and muscle loss on the extremeties, and knackering your adrenals.

If you absolutely insist on training every day like that, i would def. suggest an adaptogenic like rhodiola rosea or tribulus to help offset some of the stress, as well a good multi like Alpha Men. Zoned might also be good becouse it contains several ingredients to help regulate cortisol and keep the adrenals healthy.

[Rich Andrews]

Hairtotheking - Thanks for your knowledgeable comments. I understand what you are saying. One point i would make is that i have trained twice a day for years, i would usually train weights in the morning before work then would have either rugby training or running club in the evening. I have never had an issue with burnout although my size gains have reached a plateau in the last 6 months. Im sure i have heard of alot of people that train twice daily.

Would you suggest staying in the gym for longer in the evening and do cardio after weights (although i know that your not meant to spend anymore than an hour at any one time before muscle wastage occurs).

Im in the tricky situation of wanting to gain lean muscle and loose what little fat i have. Any tips for my situation?

If I were to take a supplement to suppress the cortisol, could I still get away with training like this for another couple of months or would you advise against it?

[ryandj2]

I would think that if you are not working, and get sufficient rest, then it would be ok.

Can you fit in an afternoon nap? There are hormones released on sleeping that contribute to recovery so having a powernap sort of doubles your recovery ability if that makes sense. I know that, for example, Paula Radcliffe has an afternoon nap for this very reason.

What is your diet like? With that amount of training, to ensure you get the most benefit from it (ie improved cardio fitness for your 1/2 marathon, strength and size gains, and fat loss) you really need to make sure you are eating loads of good, nutritious food. If you post a daily diet here, people will give you some tips. Once that is sorted, then look at supplements.

I don't think that you will lose muscle after over an hours training if you are eating enough calories to cover the energy expenditure and provide enough protein to retain what muscle you have plus grow some more.

[craig1014]

Your training schedule isnt that hard compared to what the others are saying, I wouldnt worry too much about over training! Personally, I would certainly lift pre-cardio, and question what I wanted to achieve with the cardio - perhaps you could do it every other day for the same gains? Make sure you monitor yourself for signs of overtraining if it does occur however, as it can set you back!

In terms if creatine, I have no experience with CEE, I use creapure. I take 10gs per day, split into 2x5g doses, one pre-weights, one post weights. Creatine wont make you fatter, but you *might* get some water retention and put on 1-2kg, but this will disappear when you come off the creatine. Hope that helps!

[khris]

Quote

I would think that if you are not working, and get sufficient rest, then it would be ok.

Can you fit in an afternoon nap? There are hormones released on sleeping that contribute to recovery so having a powernap sort of doubles your recovery ability if that makes sense. I know that, for example, Paula Radcliffe has an afternoon nap for this very reason.

What is your diet like? With that amount of training, to ensure you get the most benefit from it (ie improved cardio fitness for your 1/2 marathon, strength and size gains, and fat loss) you really need to make sure you are eating loads of good, nutritious food. If you post a daily diet here, people will give you some tips. Once that is sorted, then look at supplements.

I don't think that you will lose muscle after over an hours training if you are eating enough calories to cover the energy expenditure and provide enough protein to retain what muscle you have plus grow some more.

In my experience remain clear of naping, it only disrupts your main sleep later that day, which IMO isnt worth it at all, but everyones different.

[ryandj2]

Quote

I need some help........I currently train twice daily, one cardio session in the morning for 50 mins at high intensity, then a weights session in late afternoon/early evening. One of the supplements I’m using is Creatine ethyl ester. My goal is to build lean muscle without adding any fat reserves. Im currently following the supplement directions on the packet which is 1-3g one hour before the weight training session, not the cardio in the morning.

What i want to know is am i using the Creatine to its full potential or am i doing what i fear which is depleting the reserves of Creatine in my muscles during cardio so that i don’t get the benefit during the weights session.

Should i be taking the Creating EE before cardio as well? Also, how much Creatine EE are people taking for optimal muscle without fat storage? (I weigh 13.5 stone, body fat of around 9.5%)

Thanks in advance
Rich A

For your cardio, I would highly recommend something along these lines: The FIRST Three Day A Week Marathon Schedule – General – Runner's World

3 days a week running, with 2-3 days cross training (cycling, swimming, rowing etc).

You can do weights on top of this no problem, although heavier weights might impact on your running performannce.