L-Glutamine & my other supplements/diet - a few questions...

[ATZ]

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IF and carb eating are are massively more incompatible than low or nil carb diets and IF.

And you're basing this statement on what exactly?

Tauren has already pointed you in the direction of probably the most successful (in terms of body composition) proponent of IF using a high to moderate carb approach. I use his methods too and find adhereing to the fast just fine even on a "high carb" diet.

[Gareth83]

The Leangains approach though in my opinion primarily works through 'adherance' which isn't a problem. If you can get anyone to not eat for 8hrs of the day and consume less calories on average over say a week+ then results will be seen.

A per your sig:

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"Rather than worrying about insulin, you should worry about whatever diet works the best for you in regards to satiety and sustainability."

which the leangains approach addresses in terms of satiety and is sustainable as it is essentially giving you a daily psychological reward as opposed to weekly on most other diets. Adherance is key.

Although if you combine IF with a paleo way of thinking (Martin is actually keen on whole foods, minimal supplements etc.) then you get what I have had in my sig for some time:

[ATZ]

I think there's more to the leangains appraoch than just adhereance. I'm not a fan of nutrient timing on the whole as you well know, but anecdotally there definately seems to be "something" to having a good whack of my cals and carbs PWO, especailly after the fasting period. Jacked up insuling sensitivity, more carbs going towards glycogen, who knows?

And enough people have been hit with this stick before for you to know that Paleo doesn't necessarily = Low Carb. Most of my carb sources are Paleo: Sweet Pots, Buckwheat, Quinoa, Fruit & Veg, I only supplement it slightly with some cereal and dairy to make up my targets, and because I do fine on them and enjoy those foods.

For my sins I also eat white potatoes, even though nutritionally speaking they are practically the same if not better on some fronts than the paleo accepted Sweet Pots.

[Tauren]

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The Leangains approach though in my opinion primarily works through 'adherance' which isn't a problem. If you can get anyone to not eat for 8hrs of the day and consume less calories on average over say a week+ then results will be seen.

which the leangains approach addresses in terms of satiety and is sustainable as it is essentially giving you a daily psychological reward as opposed to weekly on most other diets. Adherance is key.

This is nothing to do with how Leangains works. (Although going by his testimonials then given how easily people seem to hit single digit bodyfat with his methods then I think its a bit more than adherence, not that adherence isn't important).

The only reason I mentioned Leangains is that its ample proof that carb intake and intermittent fasting are in no way incompatible. I know low-carbers like to think that anyone who eats carbs is permanently on a blood sugar rollercoaster, but it just isn't true.

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Although if you combine IF with a paleo way of thinking (Martin is actually keen on whole foods, minimal supplements etc.) then you get what I have had in my sig for some time:

Martin's also a fan of eating a lb. of potatoes after training

[James]

Leangains seems to be a happy medium of widely known research hot topics, Martin does, in my opinion recommend a little too high protein intake, but this is justified as fats are kept low (sub 50g) on workout days (to reduce risk of BF overspill) and carbs don't want to go stupidly high (for many reasons), therefore, the only nutrient left to get calories from is protein. There was a pubmed article over the weekend that confirmed greater athletic output with a carb rich diet (don't remember exact intake, etc etc - have a look on pubmed), Martin is a huge fan of strength and functional lean size, so recommends carbs as optimum for performance.

[Gareth83]

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And enough people have been hit with this stick before for you to know that Paleo doesn't necessarily = Low Carb. Most of my carb sources are Paleo: Sweet Pots, Buckwheat, Quinoa, Fruit & Veg, I only supplement it slightly with some cereal and dairy to make up my targets, and because I do fine on them and enjoy those foods.

Like I've said before I'm no carbaphobe and this thread has little to do with carbs, paleo living or even IF'ing. The majority of the things Martin advises we have already discussed collectively in great deal on this forum, if I recall it has been myself, RB and NU have advised an IF type way of living for some time something Art Devany was big on. The only difference is NU advises against all carbs but I think the following is a good summary:

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Primal Diet in a Nutshell
Eat

1. Meat, poultry, fish, eggs, and any natural animal fat
2. Vegetables, including leaves, stems, bulbs, roots
3. Fruits and berries (includes avocados and olives)
4. Nuts such as almonds, walnuts, hazelnuts, pecans, coconut, etc.
5. Herbs and spices

Avoid/minimize (in order of importance)

1. Sweeteners, including sugar (white, brown, organic, whatever), maple syrup, rice syrup, etc.
2. Vegetable oils other than extra virgin olive, avocado, palm, and coconut.
3. Cereal grains and grain products (bread, pasta, pastries, etc.)
4. Legumes (beans and peas, including soy and peanuts)
5. Dairy products

Primal Wisdom: Paleo Diet pH IV: Weston Price on pH

Or quite simply eat meat, fish, eggs, nuts, fruit, veg and a bit of dairy with fermented goods.

We're all pretty much on the same lines anyway

[Wotan]

FAO ATZ:-

1. a) Personal Experience.
b) Congruent anecdotal evidence (ie, other people's experience).
c) Go back to Nu's thread on insulin and carbs and check out my references there. You already know the ones I am talking about because I've given them to you before.

2. In my opinion the only people qualified to comment on the benefits of a low carb diet are successful low-carbers themselves. No-one else can have anything to compare it to, can they?

A more general comment echoing Gareth's point:-

Any comments or queries about carbs, fasting, insulin, food combining etc should be posted in the relevant thread please. To all intents and purposes it is this one:-

How carbs and insulin make you fat and/or ill!

FAO Conrad:-

It might be worth your while reading the above thread if you are trying to lose fat whilst preserving muscle. Take notice especially of post no. 821 (which is on page 83). The next bit to read starts on page 89, post no. 887.

Hope this helps.

[Wotan]

All posts that continued arguing high carb/low carb in this thread that appeared after post no.19 have been deleted. A seperate thread has been created in the relevant sub-forum where such discussion can take place.

Please go here.

High carbs or low carbs?

[Conrad]

I never realised that my skipping breakfast would cause such lively debate! Browsing the forums suggests that this is a long running and contentious issue though so I don't it's entirely my fault!

I've done some back-of-the-envelope calculations and I don't think I'm too far off a low carb diet as it stands (assuming that low carb means around or under 100g of carbs a day). That's much more luck than a concious decision though - months ago I basically cut out all potato sides from my main meals and ditched most dishes cooked with cheese or cream which killed pasta for me. This was to lower calories as much as anything else. The rest of my carbs are from breakfast at weekends, bread at lunch, a bit of fruit and nuts in the evening, most of those wouldn't be hard to drop and replace with protein. I'll do some more reading here and in articles referenced and I might tap you all for advice in future threads.

As for the glutamine questions, they're been answered fully. I've dropped the sugar out of my morning tea (that was the only drink I'd have sugar in all day anyway), I won't put glutamine in my post workout or pre-bed shakes, I don't have to be "challenged" by the BCAAs and I'll be ordering a couple of 1kg bags with my next order later this week.

Thanks everyone!

[khris]

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I never realised that my skipping breakfast would cause such lively debate!

They just care deeply about your welfare thats all lol, or rather an argument for the sake of it, nonetheless goodluck bro